Episode 303 with Nicole Nelson

Nicole is another talented designer I know through IIDA. I’ve had the benefit of seeing her portfolio grow, and am excited for you all to hear about her experience in college during the lockdown, her internships, her business and marketing background, and her design journey.

Note: There are some volume/sound issues in my audio early on in this episode but resolve by the time we get through the first few minutes.

Timestamps:

Welcome: 00:10

First non- drink related question: 02:45

Schooling: 11:27

Internships & Work Experience: 26:17

The Big Questions: 01:00:45

The Fun Stuff: 1:25:20

Show Notes:

Show notes from this episode can be found on our website.

Thanks for listening!

Design Over Drinks is Hosted by Kendra Shea

Produced and Edited by Kendra Shea and Simon Shea

Season 3 Graphics and Cover Art by Tano Design

Season 3 Music is by Qreepz

Email: DesignOverDrinksPod@gmail.com

Socials/ Patreon: @DesignOverDrinksPod

BlueSky: @DesignOverDrinks

Transcript

Episode 303 - Nicole Nelson
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[00:00:00] 


[00:00:10] Welcome
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Kendra Shea: Hey everyone, welcome to Design Over Drinks. This is a podcast where we discuss what the hell interior designers actually do. I'm your host, Kendra Shea, a certified interior designer with 10 plus years working in residential and commercial design. 


Today we are talking with interior designer Nicole Nelson. Welcome Nicole.

Nicole Nelson: Hey Kendra, how's it going?

Kendra Shea: Good. Um, so first, what are you drinking?

Nicole Nelson: Oh, we have a very fancy cup of, uh, Starbucks Via instant coffee with a little bit of half and half in there for doing a morning session, so.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, same. I have my, um, I feel like note for the listeners. That is a UW Husky, a Husky's mug you have holding up right there. But I'm the same. It is a cup of drip coffee with cream and sugar [00:01:00] because it is morning. It is a weekend morning.


Is this like a regular morning thing for you? Because this is my daily cup of coffee vibe. Is it the same for you with this guy?

Nicole Nelson: Yes, uh, I have a cup of coffee every single morning. Now that I'm working, um, I'm finding that I'm maybe having upwards of two to three cups, uh, hopefully not more than that, uh, that, that gets a little scarier, for sure, um, but yeah, no, it's, it's an every morning thing, 

Kendra Shea: I named it Design Over Drinks for a reason. Designers drink a lot of coffee, a lot of water, and a lot of alcohol. We are, we are constantly drinking, but I do feel like there's something about working at an architecture firm with like the constant amount of coffee you're consuming and the like java breaks.

I always loved a coffee break or people like making it in office and so it's constantly going behind you if you're sitting by the kitchen. Have you experienced that yet?

Nicole Nelson: Um, not in the kitchen, so where are We have two different places where you can go get coffee, either on the second floor [00:02:00] or the third floor. Um, thankfully, my desk is somewhat away from it, because I'd probably be going to get more. 

Kendra Shea: That's the best. Yeah

Nicole Nelson: Um, but yeah, so we have a few of those machines where it's like, you know, you can get like the Starbucks drip, or it can like make you some of the fancier lattes, or like the cappuccino and stuff.

It's definitely like a nice perk to have.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, it's, it's part of the design office culture, I think, the same way like cut up donut pieces are, so is, right, like, cutting a donut into a hundred pieces.

Nicole Nelson: And it's like, oh no, it's like, if I only have 50 of those 100 pieces, it's like, it was a nibble, right? 

Kendra Shea: Yeah. It's like, it's fine, it was an whole donut, what are you talking about? Yeah, no, that is like, architecture firm culture right there.



[00:02:45] First non-drink related question
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Kendra Shea: So let's kind of. Talk a little bit about you to start with what inspired you to become an interior designer. What was your path?

Nicole Nelson: That's a great question. Um, [00:03:00] there's a long winded and a short winded answer. Um, so actually interior, being an interior designer was not my first career. Um, so maybe I can provide like a little bit of background on my educational experience. Um, so I first, I went to the University of Washington in Seattle, um, and I graduated in 2012.

I got an international business and marketing degree. Um, I think that I've always been a creative person, and like, that's where my heart has been drawn to, and like, where my, like, my energy has been drawn to, but I think I didn't have a lot of examples of people pursuing creative careers, um, kind of, like, in my life, so it was, it didn't feel like a linear path, um, I think that, uh, my family was, like, pretty Business oriented and so it was just kind of like, oh, okay.

Well here I'll try accounting and I was like, okay, that's not gonna happen Let me try finance and I was like, okay, that's not gonna happen and then um [00:04:00] You know kind of landed within the marketing sphere Because I think that I was excited about the fact that it kind of blended both the the creative and the business Aspects and so anyway,

I used to be a sales and marketing manager. Um, for a French distribution company, we imported high end French cooking stoves.

And, um, that was kind of my first foray into kind of a, what I consider like a design adjacent field. You know, I got to work with, um, a lot of homeowners, interior designers, um, architects, chefs. Um, you know, it was, it was a really cool field. Um, I felt really honored to be able to work with people who were, you know, building their, their dream homes.

And definitely there was a higher price tag, um, on, on the ranges that I was selling. And so I think it was like, kind of like one of my first forays into kind of seeing, you know, um, [00:05:00] what, what, what could this be like? Um, and so I think that that kind of like really opened up. Kind of my eyes to design. I think that it was something that I've always been interested in.

Um, but I think, um, kind of being in that field and realizing, Oh, like there really are people who are interior designers. I think sometimes again, you, you have this idea of whether if it's something that you're seeing on TV, but, um, how often you're actually getting to chat with someone who is an interior designer.

Um, I felt like that. That was a really big influence for me, um, kind of being in a design adjacent field. Um, and previously, you know, I had done, um, business and marketing and, and kind of tried to pursue the more creative aspects of the business world. Um, when I went to the University of Washington, uh, they have a really great architecture program, but I guess I would just say like.

At 18, um, design wasn't really on my [00:06:00] mind yet. Um, and I also, you know, I just didn't really have any examples in my family, um, of anyone who'd really pursued a creative, uh, career. And so, you know, I think sometimes like having that precedent makes it a little bit easier. So, um, yeah, it's actually a second career

Kendra Shea: yeah, which is not unusual at all. And I think it is one of those weird 

fields that is business, but it is also creative and you're trying to marry the two, which is not always easy for sure. So I actually think your, your business background is kind of super helpful. Somebody who has none, it's been a very interesting journey, to be fair.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, Um, you know, I mean, I, if I'm being honest, I think that sometimes, you know, like when you're going to go and do a big career switch, um, you know, you kind of always question like, okay, like how applicable, like, are my skills going to be, um, but I do feel [00:07:00] like something that was really helpful about previous work experience that I had, like, it was It was client facing.

It was so much about working with people, trying to understand their needs. You know, how can you provide a solution that's going to help them? Um, and then, you know, also hopefully like providing some, you know, beautiful design options or selections, um, along the way, right? Um, and so I think that, you know, kind of given my previous work experience, I think that, you know, again, just like meeting lots of different types of people, learning how to communicate.

And I think that that is. It's probably one of the biggest through lines that I'm seeing now in my current position. Like it's so much of, you could have the best design in the world, the most beautiful and best functioning design in the world, but if you can't speak to it, and honestly, if you can't sell it,

Kendra Shea: Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: not, it's not going to get you that far.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, and we, I think we'll definitely talk about Bellevue and it, you know, your schooling and your [00:08:00] experience there. But I have found at least through my unofficial podcast research that, um, there is like, we don't business development is something that they're like, they'll teach you at the firm you work for, or you don't need to know that.

And it, I think that's completely false. And, um, Like something we struggle with as designers is to sell ourselves and sell our work and what we do well. Um, so I think you did, it's actually a really good combo you have. Um, let's chat a little bit about your general philosophy on interior design. What's kind of your, your, um, yeah, like what, what drives your design?

What your design?

Nicole Nelson: ethos? Yeah, absolutely. I think, um, yeah, I think one of the things that I find most intriguing about design and, and again, I would say the program at Bellevue was pretty like commercially focused. I actually don't think I ever took a residential studio. Um,

Kendra Shea: Did [00:09:00] you go for four years or two?

Nicole Nelson: so four, four years

Kendra Shea: year program, right? That's what I

Nicole Nelson: Yeah. Four year program at Bellevue. Um, and, and fun fact, um, I know in, Some of your provided questions. It was like, Oh, like, what was school like post COVID 19? And I, the majority of my schooling was during COVID actually. Um, so I only had a quarter and a half in person. Um, so I started in September of 2019 and then, so I had a quarter and a half in person and then the majority of my degree was completely online.

Um, and then, so gosh, we had fully virtual for like two and a half years. And then my senior year. It was, you know, kind of a hybrid schedule, but it was much more, okay, we'll meet once in the beginning of the quarter, once for midterms for like a presentation and, and once at

Kendra Shea: yeah, which is no different from like my schooling in [00:10:00] 2015. And before that, like, right, you'd go in every day or 3 to 4 times a day. You're constantly in classes with big groups of people. Um, I think it was very different. Yeah, for you and not being in the same way.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so to, to get back to your original question about like what my design philosophy is, I think that, um, you know, I really enjoyed the commercial studios and I think that something I thought was really interesting was, Um, you know, we started to develop our personas or, you know, who, who are the folks that are going to be using this space?

So, right, I think it's kind of trying to, uh, much more like user experience design, user focused design. Um, and so I think, um, trying to analyze spaces and programming and how you want people to experience this space. So, um, generally I'd say [00:11:00] like as much as I can applying universal design approach. And just trying to have it be as equitable as possible, right?

If, if design is good for everyone, then I think that it's more successful.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, I think that's a great way to approach it and it should be how we approach space. It shouldn't be for one group of people. Very few things are, um, so that makes total sense.



[00:11:27] Schooling
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Kendra Shea: So as we just said, you belt, you Bellevue, wow, you graduated in 2023 from Bellevue college with your bachelor of the BAA program.

That's that four year program. And so You know, we, we just talked about how it was, you spend most of your schooling during the COVID 19 pandemic, which. I've been saying we're still in, I think it's post lockdown is really the important part to talk about here. Like, we're definitely post, post lockdown world is very different.

Um, [00:12:00] so I'd love to hear about how the program, what that program was like for you, like, you know, schooling in the pandemic. I know a lot of it, um, was online. We were doing a lot of online classes. Um, And just talk a little bit more, kind of, how that kind of, how that

Nicole Nelson: I mean, well, the world definitely felt like it was ending. So, um, you know, that was definitely a really,

Kendra Shea: I getting a degree? Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: at the time. I mean, I still remember having conversations with friends in the program and people kind of trying to decide, do we just want to pursue the AA?

Like do I, you know, do we wanna continue for the four years to get our BA? And I think, you know, I, I hope people are feeling like more confident now, can feel more confident [00:13:00] about like the direction that they're heading in. But again, it was just such a time of. No one really knew when this thing was going to end and like, you know, what is, what is the future landscape going to look like?

So, um, I don't know. I think in a way I actually found school to be really helpful for me that time, like mentally as well. I think something that was like really nice was having something that I could like throw my energy into and to have something to focus on. Um, during the pandemic, I think, um, You know, I think something that's interesting is now having some work experience, like working for larger commercial firms, so many professionals with more experience are like, Oh my gosh, I.

I can't imagine like, I don't even know what studio would be [00:14:00] like being online and I'm, to me, conversely, it's like, well, I don't even know what studio would be like being in person.

Kendra Shea: Yeah,

Nicole Nelson: Um, so I just think that that's, you know, interesting and I think that, you know, definitely, um, everyone was kind of doing the best that they could at the time.

I know that, you know, I think that it was a pretty large undertaking for everyone to kind of have to. Re shift and reprogram, you know, their careers. The professors were, you know, having to make a lot of recorded content

Kendra Shea: Yeah, I'm

Nicole Nelson: online, which is, you know, probably uncomfortable for a lot of people. And, um, you know, speaking, speaking in front of a camera and, and, and, or, you know, uh, teaching class over Zoom where 95 percent of people have their cameras off, and like, no one's really participating.

Um, so I think it was, I think it was a challenge for everyone. Um, yeah.

Kendra Shea: for sure. I think it was definitely a weird time [00:15:00] to be doing anything. Um, I think it's, you know, it's for anyone, anything you were doing at that time is like framed by, you know, the pandemic and what it is. So that makes total sense. Um, so Despite your, your, you know, unique experience in college, in your second degree, um, what do you think, you know, let's talk a, I wanna kind of talk a little bit more about the program, um, and this, the work you did while you were in school and what the schooling was like.

So what do you feel like they prepared you for now that you're kind of working in the field? Mm-hmm

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, I think that Bellevue did a really great job of providing a fairly holistic, um, approach to interior design. I think that's something that was Like also interesting for me, it's like coming with a full second bachelors. I think that I kind of expected that I was going to be able to get [00:16:00] through the program, you know, maybe, uh, more quickly, you know, I was able to apply some credits, you know, like math, English, you know, like, like one science class, but, um, I really didn't have any of that.

Like a formal art background. So there were so many of kind of like the undergraduate, like, uh, more like general studies courses,

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Which are nice to have kind of knocked off.

Nicole Nelson: yeah, but yeah, but I guess just like kind of really starting from the beginning of like art 101, you know, and composition and all the art history classes and things like that.

And so, you know, I think that that was, um, Really nice to have as, as a And again, just to kind of see how. Design and architecture has has, um, shaped over the years. But so, uh, things that I think that Bellevue did well, um, I would [00:17:00] say in terms of, you know, uh, software classes, things like that. I think that trying to, like, really gain those technical skills is honestly like paramount.

Um, and again, I think, you know, kind of like when I was saying, like, you know, you can have the best design in the world. But one, if you can't articulate it and two, if you can't build it, that's, you know, if you can't build

Kendra Shea: are you doing?

Nicole Nelson: in, in, in a 3D program, you know, that's, that's a real challenge. And

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm.

Nicole Nelson: you know, I think that definitely I saw my own progress and improvement.

And how I was designing because I became more proficient at the program, like at the software programs over time, you know, so it's like, Oh my gosh, I would never show my cafe design that I think I did my sophomore year versus like my capstone. And now even, I mean, I'm only a year out from school, but like my capstone I'm like.

Kendra Shea: Oh, yeah. [00:18:00] No, it's a

Nicole Nelson: There, there, there are some

Kendra Shea: were like, oh my gosh.

Nicole Nelson: yeah, there are some things here that we would, we would change, but,

Kendra Shea: Yeah. I had a firm I worked for be like, we want to see your portfolio. And I was like, I, I've been working for two years. Can we not? Like, let's, we did. But still, I was like, can we not judge this? This was old.

Nicole Nelson: now, you

Kendra Shea: Yeah, I've learned a lot. Like, I work for companies now and not just like in dreamland of school where I'm just like, no budget.

Yeah, or even when you do budget in school, it is not the same.

Nicole Nelson: Oh, yeah, we know we didn't budget. We didn't budget at all. Um, you know, it was sky's the limit. And I think that hopefully that's what I don't know. I hope that that's like what most most what most programs like can be because I think it's like hopefully during school. It's like that opportunity of like really flex your creative skills and, um, you know, dreaming and imagining like, you know, what, what could it be?

Kendra Shea: um, but on the note of not having anything about [00:19:00] budgets, what do you feel Bellevue did not prepare you for?

Nicole Nelson: Something, um, that I have noticed now. Um, so like my current working position, we're very much working in teams. And that is It's not something that we did at all during my undergraduate experience. And, and I think, um, you know, like understanding the working world and that I think we're pretty much always going to be working on teams, whether it's an internal design team, you know, the folks that you're sitting around or, you know, collaborating with coordinating vendors, you know, um, knowing who's responsible for what I think.

You know, it, um, it's kind of take, I mean, I've only been in my new job for a few months.

Kendra Shea: You know, you're fine.

Nicole Nelson: things where it's, you know, but again, just trying to learn [00:20:00] who's going to do what, what are you responsible for? What does each person kind of bring to the table? Um, and it's really, I think about that collective solution, which I think is something that like, I really love, but that's something that was so different, you know, in school, it was, it was all on you.

You were designing everything. You were making all of The decisions, you know, of course, like trying to get feedback from professors, um, but it was really all on you, you know, and I think, yeah, and I think, you know, as well when you're asking about, like, the pandemic, right? It's just like we were, you know, being online versus being in person, doing so much design kind of like in a silo.

Kendra Shea: you are already like, siloed and then you're like, double siloed.

Nicole Nelson: The double silo. The double silo

Kendra Shea: double silo and I think some of that is because like normally like we talk about so again I'm gonna come from the experience of having studios in person There is something about getting together and all commiserating [00:21:00] together about how frickin exhausted you are and how annoyed you are at like whatever Dumb assignment you have it just feels like too much on top of everything And so even though you're working alone you have this camaraderie bit But for you all schooling during the pandemic, we were, you can only do so much like virtual stuff where you're like over it where you're just over being on camera and over talking to people this way when you don't have another option.

And so I do think that that had to have been harder because you didn't have the same sense of camaraderie that I got to kind of experience like you were just alone a lot of it and your poor families are like, what are you doing over here in your room?

Nicole Nelson: Oh gosh. I mean, you know, bless them. My parents are both accountants and I remember like, um, it was like one of my earlier studios and we were forming a parti by, um, shaping a sculpture, right? And then it was like, how are we? [00:22:00] So art school. Okay. And then some of this is like new for me too. It's like, I have very much like left brain, right brain.

So some of this is like, I don't even know what I'm trying to do right now. Um, but anyway, I just remember like extrapolating, trying to extrapolate like my concept from the sculpture that I had made into my studio. And I'm all excited about it. And I go, I'm going to show my dad and he's like, well, where are the doors?

And I'm like, I'm like, you're missing the point.

Kendra Shea: There are no doors.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah. I'm like the sculpture, you know, and, but the doors and I was like, you know, anyway, so design is very much

Kendra Shea: Yeah, right?

Nicole Nelson: think that like design is so much of a, of a language, right. And I think it's, it's a language that you like. Hone your skills over time and, um, yeah.

So anyway, I think now being a few years into it, it's like more, more [00:23:00] design language than others, you know? Um, so yeah, it's been fun.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, no, I think that's a really great example of like what we do and people are like, huh, and you're like, I promise this becomes doors.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, it's the doors. I know

Kendra Shea: will connect to the door someday. Like, I will, the door, yeah, the door finish, the door number, the door shape, door size will come back.

Nicole Nelson: a hundred percent. I think it's like, yeah. What my dad would probably geek out over would be like the door schedule. Be like, here, now let me present you the door schedule with the Excel sheet. And

Kendra Shea: yes, all the finishes or like a finished spreadsheet. There's something really satisfying about getting into finishes and just yep, it's all lined up and you know that this room has this floor and this wall and this base and this type of ceiling and you're like, ah, it's organized. Does feel

Nicole Nelson: It's very satisfying. So yeah, the, the, the left and right brain, it's like, we're, we're pretty happy or

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Two sides of what we do. We're like, and look at this beautiful color, but also now it's organized.[00:24:00] 

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Totally.

Kendra Shea: Um, I

Nicole Nelson: I'm trying to think if Bellevue didn't prepare me for anything else. Oh, I mean, okay, so I think I, you know, I said Things that I thought that it did really well. I enjoyed the variety of the studios even though I didn't take a residential studio You know, and they did do a good job.

So I, when I was going through the program, certain software classes were mandatory. So Revit's mandatory, SketchUp's mandatory. Auto, I believe AutoCAD and Rhino were. electives I chose to take Rhino, um, which I don't use now. I don't know. That was a little bit hard for my brain to figure out. I was like, I'd rather be a master, like a master of fewer programs than to try and like, know not very much in, in many.

Kendra Shea: I can see that. It's a good [00:25:00] approach.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, I just, I mean, you know, again, I think these are the programs that you're going to be using to execute your design. So the more that you can know and learn,

Kendra Shea: Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: Um, so yeah, I mean, I think if there was like Revit 2 or SketchUp 2, you know, um, as kind of like a follow up to this series, like if you wanted to continue to

Kendra Shea: Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: those as electives, something like that instead and have it be a bit more like robust.

Uh, because, yeah, a deeper dive, there's the, the functionality and the power of, of some of these software, uh, tools, particularly Revit. I mean, it's just like pretty mind blowing how smart they are and, um, what, what they can be used for. And I think that, you know, we kind of, we kind of scratched the surface

Kendra Shea: yeah, no, that's totally fair, um, that makes a lot of sense because there is a lot of [00:26:00] programs and they often give you like a little bit of everything, unless you do choose to really deep dive into one, which is often then a program outside of school, so you're paying more money and it just, yeah, I can see that.

Nicole Nelson: right?

Kendra Shea: being something you'd want. 


[00:26:17] Internships & Work Experience
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Kendra Shea: All right, let's talk about your internship. So you did a few, and so I think I'm just going to kind of talk about each one, and I love that you did more than one. I think that's actually a great way to really understand what it's like to do, to be an interior designer and do the job before you even start working.

Um, so your first one was McPherson Construction and Design. Can you talk a little bit about kind of maybe how you got that one and your experience?

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, absolutely. Um, so the first internship that I had was a residential internship. So they're a high end custom home builder, um, on the east side of Wash or east [00:27:00] side of Lake Washington. So kind of like in the Redmond Sammamish area. Um, yeah. And so I mean, kind of a small world. I got connected through them.

Um, we their daughter. Uh, the owner's daughter is a mutual friend of mine. So I, I knew her and then, uh, one of my friends was getting married. And so I ran into the owner and his wife at a wedding. And we got to chatting and I was like, I'm in design school. And I think that they had, you know, we'd all had some wine.

So he's like, get her a card. And

Kendra Shea: Yes. Hey, networking, man, do it

Nicole Nelson: know. Yes. Yeah. And I think it's, it's one of those things is like, Oh gosh, I think that net like networking for me used to be such a, like a trigger word. Like it just had all of these like really icky.

Kendra Shea: Same.

Nicole Nelson: associations like around it. I think that's something that feels a lot different for me I think you know gosh when I [00:28:00] graduated from UW and going to school like the idea of networking just set me into an absolute panic because I was like terrifying everyone's gonna be really mean and really scary

Kendra Shea: Nobody wants to talk to me.

Nicole Nelson: No one wants to talk to me.

I don't know like I don't know anything like that sort of a thing and I think Um, I think something that really shifted for me, though, um, in terms of going back to school and pursuing this thing that I truly wanted to do, I think for me now, like, it feels much more about, like, a natural and, like, genuine curiosity, which I, makes, quote, unquote, networking, or having a conversation, much less scary, because I'm just like, hey, that's cool, I want to learn more about that, uh, so I think that sometimes when I'm talking to younger students, Or friends, you know, kind of like going through school.

I just kind of try to encourage them to hopefully not think of it so much as like [00:29:00] being uber professional, but just like more like if you can bring kind of like a natural curiosity to it. And, and again, like people are so kind and genuinely like very interested in talking about what they do.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, and especially if you're going like, I have the same feeling. I when I graduated to my first degree, which was also an interior design, um. Yeah. It felt the same. I was like, Oh, networking. I don't want to do that. That feels icky. And then with my second one with getting my BA, I started to do it and I was like, Oh, actually this is really fun.

I'm meeting a lot of good people. It's, you know, I spew that IIDA gospel all the time. Right? Like I networked and met with people and volunteered and it is subsequently gotten me jobs and work and like all of the good things. So I agree. It does feel very scary and coming. From the business side and me living in New York, I think I had the same feeling like networking sounds like a very scary, terrifying thing.

And it's actually [00:30:00] now like my favorite. It's fun. I'm like, let's go to an event and meet new people. This is a joy,

Nicole Nelson: yeah, and I think getting getting to chat with people and like, you know, learning about their story What did you do and and kind of like your approach? So anyway, um, yes, I guess at this wedding It didn't necessarily feel like networking at the time. It was more just like oh like I'm in school, but hey it worked out um Yeah, and so actually I think my friend's wedding maybe was in like June July And then we just kind of kept in touch over the summer.

They'd never really had an intern And so it was like, Hey, like, let's stay in touch. Um, and it was really great. I think that we just kind of, um, reopen the conversation later. I think that, you know, they're super busy. They do really amazing, beautiful work. And so it was kind of like, Hey, yeah, like, let's kind of see how this works out.

Um, to do like a part time internship come in a couple of days a week. Um, and see kind of how I [00:31:00] could support the team, you know, in the meantime,

Kendra Shea: perfect. Awesome. Uh, I, I love that, that it was, they weren't necessarily looking for it, but you took that opportunity to say, Hey, if you can use me, here's where, um, I could fit in. And

Nicole Nelson: totally.

Kendra Shea: It worked out nicely. So it sounds like you were there for a year for a few years. Um, because you're the

Nicole Nelson: I was there. I think I was there for I think both my internships were around Eight eight to nine months. So that one I did during my junior year.

Kendra Shea: And then senior year, um, Callison, RTKL, Arcadis. Are they now Arcadis? I should know this. I'm obviously not up on the

Nicole Nelson: They they are now. Yeah. No, they they they are now arcadis. I think it was um,

Kendra Shea: Was it both for a while? They were like

Nicole Nelson: I think it was a switch. So I mean, uh, kind of just like, so Callison originally is a Seattle based firm, very much known for their [00:32:00] retail design.

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm.

Nicole Nelson: And then over the years, I don't know exactly when the merger happened or the acquisition happened.

They became Callison RTKL or

Kendra Shea: while I was in school, like 2015, 16, 17, I think it was like the teens in there because I, it was Callison when I first started college. So getting my bachelor's and then by the time I graduated or like right after, I feel like cause when I remember the switch happening and being like, Oh, they have a new name.

Nicole Nelson: Totally. Yeah. So I

Kendra Shea: I don't know. I'll fact

Nicole Nelson: always, we're always trying to keep up with who's, who's buying who

Kendra Shea: Wow. Right. For sure. Um, other Arcadis, I guess.

Nicole Nelson: yes. So, uh,

Kendra Shea: yeah. So,

Nicole Nelson: switching over to Arcadis, right? As I was kind of finishing up my internship. So I'll go ahead and say I was at Callison.

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Um, and so how did you kind of get, get that internship or do they have that more traditional process, um, where you kind of have to apply [00:33:00] ahead of time, or was it again kind of who you knew?

Nicole Nelson: um, you know, I think if I, if I remember correctly, so I, I did not apply for a formal internship. I do think given that they are a larger firm, I do believe that. that they have a more, um, formal program where it's kind of like they'll reach out to the schools in the area and, you know, check out student led portfolios, things like that.

Um, so again, kind of like along like the networking aspect, I think that's something that I started to do while I was in school was I became really involved with IIDA. Um, I was also involved with RDI, which is the Retail Design Institute.

Kendra Shea: Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: And so I was just, I knew so much. I think that a big thing that felt like a really big difference to me between going to design school and going to business school [00:34:00] was all of the work that I am producing right now is the thing that I am going to be showing to employers.

And so.

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm.

Nicole Nelson: I took, I took school really seriously. . I've let a lot of blood, sweat and tears into, into the program. And I think that, you know, I think that's something that I was cognizant of was, you know, there's these really great organizations that are hosting, uh, professional development workshops or portfolio reviews.

And so it was kind of like. Any opportunity that I could have to talk to professionals about my projects and, Hey, what do you think? And, and, but also again, kind of like in understanding that. If you know more people and like you're seeing them at an event later, it's gonna be like, oh, hey, I know you and like, and we can chat about this.

Um, so I believe that I attended one of RDI's, uh, portfolio reviews and I got [00:35:00] connected, um, and had my portfolio reviewed by two. Two folks over at, at Callison and I stayed in touch. And then I think it was, we did a retail, um, a retail studio and we were presenting. So our professor at the time, had previously worked at Callison.

And so we kind of like were connected. Um, and I was like really excited to present my midterm and final at Callison and, you know, tried to come in as prepared as possible. And so I think just kind of. Through that and through participating in, in RDI professional events, it was kind of like, Hey, what about Nicole?

You know? And I think that I would just try and like stay in touch and be like, Hey, if you guys are ever looking for an intern, like, I'd love to be considered. Um, so yeah, I guess definitely like being proactive, um, in that manner.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, for sure. Just reminding them you're [00:36:00] there.

Nicole Nelson: yeah, hey, I'm still here. And I think it's like, that's another like big thing is even if something isn't available right away.

Just kind of like trying to stay in touch. So it's like, Oh yeah, they were great. Um, you know, like they attended these events and like, they were willing to talk to me about their work, you know, that sort of thing. So anyway, I think that also too, you know, that was something that was important for me during school was I did kind of want to have a few different types of internships if possible, because they think it was my experience working at a residential firm versus a commercial firm, like they're just so different.

I mean, they're, they're totally different. Both absolutely valid. I think it really is like, it depends on the person and the designer and like what they're most interested in. But like the cultures are very different and like the way you work is very different. Um, and so I think that that was kind of a goal of mine of having multiple internships and different [00:37:00] types of

Kendra Shea: Yeah, that's really smart. Um, because they are residential design and commercial design are two very separate ways to like design discipline. They're just different specialties. Um, for sure. So the last one I have on my list is Design Well Spent as six month business development contract. I don't know if that was more of an internship or more kind of, you know, the work side, but I think It's very interesting because we did talk earlier about your first degree and where it comes from.

Is that kind of why this happened this way? And I

Nicole Nelson: How that happened as well. Yes, yes, it

Kendra Shea: like, just popping back into that, that other knowledge

Nicole Nelson: We're gonna hop back into BizDev for a sec. Um, yeah, so I think also I believe one of the questions that you sent over was like, you know, how, how was the job market like post graduation? And honestly, it was really tough. So, um, I graduated last June of 2023. [00:38:00] And it was just like, honestly, at the time, large firms and at that point, I was pretty sure that I wanted to go work for a commercial firm.

I think, yeah, I think that at least at this time, I was Um, more public facing as a, for me, I felt like potentially like the rigor and or like understanding the building codes and like kind of all of the things around like materials and things that are, I think, are more strict in, in the commercial world.

I was like, I felt like if I had any question, I'm like, okay, let's, let's start with commercial. And I felt like it would be an easier transition to buying a residential, like later in my career, if that's something that I was interested in. Um, anyway, so with that being said, um, large [00:39:00] commercial farms were not hiring,

Kendra Shea: Last year,

Nicole Nelson: like actually not hiring.

Kendra Shea: It was funky. It was a weird time

Nicole Nelson: And, and, and, and right. And, and, and if anything, um, You know, besides not hiring, it was, it was a really tough time. I did lots of firms were letting people go. Um, and so that was the thing is I, I don't think that there had really been any sort of job postings for commercial firms until. The last couple of months.

Kendra Shea: It was quiet for a while. There was a lot of like upper level movement going on. I feel like, but like for the new grads and I think it

Nicole Nelson: yeah, for maybe so like, like the mid level

Kendra Shea: mid level, it's been okay, but that, like, entry level new grad, which often can be very popular because people like to take in new grads and they kind of train them, um, was very empty for, and you're right, I think it has been the last [00:40:00] three, four months that it's just picked up.

Nicole Nelson: picked up a little bit, just which is nice, which is very promising. Um, so anyway, yeah, again, I, um, I got involved with Design Well Spent again through the Retail Design Institute, the owner. Um, of design, well spent Toby Ray was the president of RDI. I know she's still like highly involved again. Um, so I believe like through events and, you know, portfolio workshops, we got connected.

I think kind of being able to bring in some of that previous previous experience of being, you know, sales and marketing and then plus design. Um, you know, I think with it being a smaller company, I think that they were kind of. looking for folks who could do a bit of everything. So I, I am, you know, uh, it did feel nice.

It was like, okay, you know, like all my previous working [00:41:00] experience is definitely like coming into play in this position. Which was really nice. So yeah, it was great. I think that, you know, they were looking to, they're looking to build up like their business development department. They're, they're doing so great.

I'm I, it's always great for me to see on LinkedIn when they get like new wins and, um, you know, it was just a really great team. So, and as a woman on business, so that was like a really. Fun, fun thing to be a part of and very like empowering. It's just like seeing all of these women, uh, really take charge and, and being leaders, you know, like in the community.

And so it was, it was a really great team to be a part of,

Kendra Shea: Awesome. I love that. So you kind of did a contract for them. Some work. And now you're working at NBBJ in Seattle. So congrats. You really, you talk about big firm. You did it. We found it. That's it. Like they're especially

Nicole Nelson: know, it's, it's funny is yeah, I, yeah, yeah, it's been, um, it, it felt like [00:42:00] a really busy year. I want to say in, in the last year, it was like having three new, three new jobs. And it felt like a lot of change for me. I mean, I kind of traditionally am someone who probably doesn't love change. Um, so sometimes it was kind of like, okay, well, you know, starting again.

Um, but I think in a way it's maybe also been good for me because I feel like it's made me kind of like work on like my resiliency skills and, you know, just kind of like continue to put yourself out there sort of a thing. Um, yeah. So I started having, um, after my contract had ended with Design Well Spent.

Um, again, I was still just like kind of volunteering, but was really just kind of send it, send it in the work to the whole network. It was like, who wants me, you know? Um, so anyway, but I think, yeah, I was, uh, really interested always in, in NBBJ, like, [00:43:00] they're a really amazing firm. Um, and so we started chatting, I want to say, late in April, like early May.

Um, and they didn't have a position open at the time. I think that they're kind of wanted to be in a good position where they felt good about bringing new people on, not just for like one specific project, but like, you know, obviously future growth of the company, um, in the studio. And so, yeah, gosh, I think I just hit my.

Eight week or nine week

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Real new, real fresh

Nicole Nelson: We're real fresh.

Kendra Shea: I think it's really exciting. I think you're in a, a really wonderful place to be, especially as somebody who knows they wanna do commercial and wants to pursue that you've had some experience in other large firms and how they work. Um, so you're not gonna come in and kind of be blindsided by sometimes.

I think people often sometimes get blindsided if you don't have a very different internship than your first job, and it's just. Very

Nicole Nelson: Yeah. Yeah.

Kendra Shea: so I do [00:44:00] think you're, you're kind of set up for success in that way. And I know some people who've worked at NBBJ, you know, it's, it's a beautiful firm and it's a, people learn a lot and you get a lot of great experience there.

So I'm excited for you. It is not the space for me. I am not a firm girly. This is not my jam, but I'm so excited for you. You know, the same way. It's like, we need a little bit of everything. We need just independent designers. We need, you know. Small women run companies like Design Well Spent, as well as we need big NBBJs that kind of have big towers of architects.

Like it just, it's part of what makes up our community and makes it diverse in my mind. So I'm so excited for you and I always love it when

Nicole Nelson: Thank you.

Kendra Shea: they're aiming for. I'm like, yes, go, make change.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think it was it was just kind of yeah, it felt a little a little surreal to kind of like plan the job that I was really really excited about and and to I think Sometimes, I don't know, it's [00:45:00] funny, I feel like even if I just like meet someone in the grocery store or Trader Joe's, they're always so chatty at Trader

Kendra Shea: there.

Nicole Nelson: oh well like, what do you do?

And I, like, I don't know, sometimes I kind of have to like catch myself a little bit being like, oh, well, I'm an interior designer. And it just like, it feels, but it feels really good because I think it's, it's one of those things where it was kind of like this dream that's been baking in the back of my mind for a long time, and then it's like, oh wait, like.

Kendra Shea: I'm doing it.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, did it like you're like you're doing it and and so like that's that's a really good feeling to have

Kendra Shea: super exciting. Um, do you, what do you think was kind of the thing that helped you get the job? Skills, schooling, networking, like what, what was the thing do you think where they went? Yes, Nicole, this is the person we want. 

Nicole Nelson: some of the feedback that I think that I got I would say I mean, I think it kind of like a host of different things, but I think [00:46:00] Really, I would say was my varied experience. I think You know, and again, I think it's kind of like it's nice to see that I am kind of being able to use my previous sales and marketing experience being able to bring that.

So I think that, you know, I have been told that that is something that is unique. Um, kind of being able to fuse those two worlds together and potentially as I continue to grow within the design world, like hopefully, um, it can be like a more holistic player and like bring a different skill set to the team.

Um.

Kendra Shea: yeah. You'll be

Nicole Nelson: so I I think

Kendra Shea: BD real quick. I can see it now.

Nicole Nelson: I'm nodding my I'm nodding my head. I'm on the camera. Yeah, I'm not I'm like, okay, okay

Kendra Shea: You know it.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, so yeah, we'll

Kendra Shea: a good designer for BD. It is like, especially, I don't know if you know this yet, but like, when they start putting out like, uh, [00:47:00] proposals and stuff. They often like do a little thing where it's like, here's the architect on the project, here's the designer on the project.

And so I'm sure you'll be on those. And then they like, you go to do interviews and you do a bunch of interview prep and somebody who comes from the business end too, they're going to love that. You're going to, you're going to be busy. You'll be fine. I can tell you just from like, just, I can see it now.

You're going to be all

Nicole Nelson: oh that's so funny I know I think yeah like right now I think something that is Been been great for me. I I mean it's only been like two months, but I feel like i've i've learned so much I'm trying to just So soak up

Kendra Shea: Sponge years.

Nicole Nelson: be the sponge. Um, again, I think that's something that I, like, I am like really loving right now and like continually impressed by my colleagues is the way that they speak about design and to me, how, how eloquent and smart they sound like in our, in our client presentations.

And then I [00:48:00] think that that's something that it's, um, a skillset that I would. Like to continue to work on and I think that that's hopefully some, you know, from experience and, and being kind of like immersed in that culture, but, you know, really being able to speak well to, to, to your, to your reasoning and like, we, you know, why, like, why are we making these choices?

Kendra Shea: yeah, and being able to interpret the design language, because we, we talked earlier, right, about the language of design that we use and we have internally, but when you're talking to a client, you have to take that internal design language and turn it into something where they can say, Okay, yes, I love this.

Let's go forward with this idea. And it's really hard to do, and you're right, it takes practice and it takes time, and it will, it, it's one of those, like, learned skills over time that you start in school with crits and, you know, in the office, just something you kind of learn to talk about and why you make decisions and why you do things.

So, um, yeah, I think you'll be fine. You'll get there and you're right. It is [00:49:00] just a little bit of time. And once you have that language knowledge, you'll be fine. You should be, be off. Winning projects left and right.

Nicole Nelson: we'll be buzzing, we'll be buzzing

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, so what you're, you're in that first like two months of the job.

So I think these are actually really great questions to be asking you right here right now. Um, so when, what are your first tasks have been like, what have been the first things they've given you as a new designer in your office to do?

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, so, um, uh, well, maybe I should clarify just or, or provide like a little bit of context. I am a workplace. I'm a workplace designer now 

Kendra Shea: Nice. 

Nicole Nelson: NBBJ so NBBJ is also really well known for their, um, their healthcare studio. Um, but so I am, I'm a workplace designer. Um, and I think that something for me that's been really cool is, um, I actually got to start working on a project, I think like one [00:50:00] week.

Either it was my first week or it was like one week after, like when I was starting. It was like, I got to be, I was put on a project team where it was, we were starting. Basically from day one with this client. Um, yeah, which was great because I think, you know, in past, in past internships, you know, sometimes if you're not in the office five days a week, right?

Like, so let's just say that you're there twice a week, something like that. Maybe you're going to get pulled onto a task. Really quickly and it's like, okay, it has like a two or three day deadline and it's like, you know, it's a, it's a smaller thing, but I think for me, like, just in always wanting to try to understand as much as possible.

It's like, oh, we're working on a mall in Dubai. Like, you know, I think I was always like working on some like leasing plans and I'm like, Can I, like, learn a little bit more about, like, what the goal of the project is? And, you know, the thing is just sometimes it's like you don't have the time [00:51:00] for that. Um,

Kendra Shea: Well, an intern is like temporary, right? Like, they know you're only there for a short amount of time, you kind of fill in where it's needed, versus once you're in a job and on a project team, it is a very different experience. In your day to day, right? Because you are working, you're right, you're working towards a goal and every day is a work towards that goal, whether it's finish picking, whether it's meetings, whether it's, you know, concept models or concept plan, whatever you're doing, you're working towards an end goal.

And as an intern, you come in and they're like, today, we need you to do this. And you're like, okay. And the next day, and they're like, and now you're working on this other project that's across the world, but we need someone to come in and like whole base, you know what I mean?

Nicole Nelson: like, fix the plans,

Kendra Shea: Yeah, or like, you're going to work in this 1 set of elevations.

Yeah. Yeah. You're like, thrown a project that you do in a few hours, and then you're done. And you're right. And most, it's like a 3 day thing. Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: sometimes it's like, and then it's like, Hey, what [00:52:00] happened with that?

Kendra Shea: yeah, you're

Nicole Nelson: I don't know. I think

Kendra Shea: where that went.

Nicole Nelson: me, you know, again, I think that that's something that's like

too earlier when you're asking about like, you know, like, why did you become an interior designer? I think that's something that like, I find very satisfying is creating a built product or something that it's okay. Maybe, you know, we're not like tangibly holding the space, but it's like, you can go and you can see and you can experience it.

And I, um, so I think that sometimes like that's why I was like, wait, what happened with that mall? You know? Um,

Kendra Shea: have questions.

Nicole Nelson: yeah, I know. So, uh, I'll have to reach out to someone

Kendra Shea: Yeah, just now you're like, wait a minute. Wonder

Nicole Nelson: yeah, I'm like, I know. I just, I forgot about that leasing plan. So anyway, um, so in the first, yeah, first couple of months, so we kicked off a project.

I want to say like in the first or second week of starting, um, I have been, what's been really great is I've been kind of involved in [00:53:00] everything. I like really appreciate the approach that, um, NBBJ or at least our team is taking where it's very much everyone will kind of have like goals for what we need to accomplish by the end of the week or end of two weeks.

But everyone is very much welcome to ideate, bring their own ideas, um, and, and contribute. Um, specifically. You know, on this program or on this project. Um, I have been dubbed the program queen because, um, we, I needed to be the manager of the program. So we're working in, um, a high rise in downtown Seattle.

We have five floors and the company that we're, or the client that we're working with, they have many different business types, um, and types of employees that are, you know, need to have certain adjacencies, um, you know, relation, like on the floor, who

Kendra Shea: [00:54:00] so it's, it's obviously a complicated, like, programming. It's not just like, here's a bunch of people who work in an office. It is a large five story office, or five floor office, which adds

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, Five floor, yeah.

Kendra Shea: Not only are you thinking about horizontal adjacencies, but you're thinking about vertical adjacencies.

That's just like a whole nother level.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, so lots, yeah, there's there's been lots of moving pieces. So anyway, um, kind of got the locking key on the program. Um, so that's been nice, um, have definitely helped with test fits working through plans. We're still in SD right now. So, um, contributed ideas to, I know I'm, I am

Kendra Shea: Early stages. Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: I am like loving it right now.

Like it's so much fun.

Kendra Shea: I feel like I want to check back in in six months when you're in CDs and see how you

Nicole Nelson: Oh,

Kendra Shea: I'm gonna follow up.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah. In,

Kendra Shea: I would love to just be like, how are you doing?

Nicole Nelson: how do you, [00:55:00] yeah. How do you

Kendra Shea: Are you over it yet? Cause I, I will say personally, I get that way. I think it's why I like doing contract work cause I can come in, do X amount of hours and then be done.

I do, I hate to say this, but like I'll hit a point in a project where I'm like I am so over it. I have been looking at this same stuff for six months and I am so over it. But, I also, who

Nicole Nelson: something fresh.

Kendra Shea: I feel like you could also be like, no, I'm loving this. You could still in six months, absolutely be. Cause there are designers I have met who love the process.

And I think that's a lot about design is you have to love every stage of the process as you're in it or you do get burnt out really quickly. So yeah. Note to self check back with Nicole

Nicole Nelson: I'm gonna, Yeah,

Kendra Shea: a recap recap.

Nicole Nelson: yeah, we

Kendra Shea: How's it feel?

Nicole Nelson: can do a refresh. Yeah, I think, I think, you know, right now I think that's something that is, is nice is, you know, I mean, definitely, um, I think everyone, like, feels ownership, but [00:56:00] I, you know, again, also, I'm just trying to give myself some grace of, like, being new and learning, and so it's like, oh, okay, well, we'll do this differently next time,

Kendra Shea: Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: um, you know, so that's cool.

So, um, yeah, so we worked through, through concept. Um, and are going to start DD soon. I'm, I'm also responsible for building a lot of, a lot of the decks.

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm. Nice.

Nicole Nelson: you gotta, you gotta be ready for the presentation.

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: That's the thing. So hopefully it's like, if you can space out some of your client meetings, you can have more time to design and spend less time, like getting the deck ready.

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Um, has there been anything that surprised you working in the field?

Nicole Nelson: Surprise me. Um, I think, I mean, I think it kind of like goes hand in hand with what. I was talking about with school, [00:57:00] um, just in terms of like it being collaborative, um, you know, and, and working with people. And so I think that it's just kind of, again, it is a mind shift from going like, Oh, I'm the full manager of

Kendra Shea: Yeah. I, I am everything.

Nicole Nelson: Right. And then, um, you know, but in, again, which is really like, I really like working on a team, but I think it is just kind of, again, it, it was a bit of a shift. And so I think something that maybe Bellevue. Could consider doing is like, I don't know maybe for one studio You have to work with one at least one other Divvy up design design. Yeah.

Yeah, and and just to you know foster team connection and team building and and You know learning to create a greater solution than

Kendra Shea: And being able

Nicole Nelson: done on your own

Kendra Shea: put your ideas forward and be okay with them either being changed or shut down or adjusted. I think is also something that's really [00:58:00] hard to start doing all of a sudden. You're like, oh, okay. You don't love everything. I do shit. Yeah,

Nicole Nelson: big A big thing to learn and, and is interesting about design is, you know, because it is so subjective that you really have to learn to not take things personally. And I think, you know, too, it's, um,

even if your team, right, comes up with this great solution and we're, you know, you come in and you like feel great about something, it's like realizing like, okay. Well, the client is ultimately the person that has to sign off on it. So, you know, what if, what if they don't like it? And then, you know, it's, it's one of those things about, I think, you know, being able to come back to the drawing board and just recalibrating.

And I, but I think that that's a skill too, you know, and I think that that sometimes it's like [00:59:00] maybe different than what people would expect school to be. You know, you, you hear about all different types of programs where, you know, gosh, I think that.

Kendra Shea: No, two are the same. Let me tell you,

Nicole Nelson: Some professors are going to yell at you and say, Oh my god, this is garbage, like, what are you thinking?

And like, no, well, I would not respond well to that. I think that, um, you know, I mean, I,

Kendra Shea: experiences people have had in the office.

Nicole Nelson: right, yeah. And so I think it's one of those things where it's like, sometimes, you know, I think it was like wanting, wanting to be pushed some, you know, more at school to push you to be better, right?

Kendra Shea: Yeah, no, totally fair. I think it is definitely something that maybe Bellevue could do better because I've talked to other students and other schools who talk about especially the ones that have integrated programming. So it's like architecture, interior design and landscape and graphic or, you know, so they often have like, and then they're forced to [01:00:00] do like a project together.

And I'm like, that is the most real world thing I've ever seen in a school. Because that's actually how we work. Yeah. I can't remember what program it

Nicole Nelson: And I was like, I'm not familiar with where

Kendra Shea: Listen to one of my episodes. I can't remember which one.

Nicole Nelson: I'll go check it out.

Kendra Shea: Uh, I don't know. I don't, I don't have listeners that like contact me. So note to self figure out which one it was.

Um, but I love, I think that was like, That for me was like, that is genius, like, because I had the same thing. I started interning and I was like, wait, I'm working in these project teams, which I kind of worked with other interior designers, but not in the way an office was. So it was a very, it was, it was definitely like a mental shift on how to approach design.

Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, for sure.




[01:00:45] The Big Questions
---

Kendra Shea: Awesome. So we're gonna go on to what I call the big questions. These are a little bit more serious, a little bit more kind of about the state of design and, you know, kind of where we're going, what we're doing, what we're doing right and not [01:01:00] right. And again, answer as you can, answer as you feel comfortable.

If you don't have an answer, none of these are, questions we will be answering today, I think. And none of them are like, this is the definitive answer on anything. It's more about the discussion. So to start, what, what do you think is the least understood part about being an interior designer?

Nicole Nelson: Good question. I think, um,

I think that there can, uh, can be a lot of like misconstrued information about, I was trying to think, I'm like, yeah, how do I want to say this? I think that there can be like a lot of misconstrued information about what an interior designer

Kendra Shea: yeah.

Nicole Nelson: decorator is and um, I think that sometimes I think that there's not enough value placed on our profession and and the value that we bring to society.

Um, yeah, I mean, I don't necessarily it's who's [01:02:00] quote unquote like fault I think that, like, a lot of times the way that, like, design is sold or design is, like, commercialized, right? Like, you know, people are going to see what they want to see or see what they see on, on TV. Um, you know, and I think that, yeah, yeah, make assumptions.

And I think that, um. As well, I think that, uh, probably, if, if you ask the general public, like, what do they think of when they think of design, like, they're probably not immediately jumping to healthcare design, they're not immediately jumping to, oh, who designed this library, or, you know, some of these public facing, and I didn't, you know, before I even started school, I Commercial design was really not on my radar and then it was like, Oh, someone, someone designed the airport that I'm in right now.

Someone designed this post office, whether or not I like it, you know, those, those are

Kendra Shea: somebody put thought into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: but someone put thought into this. [01:03:00] Right. Um, and so anyway, I think that a lot of times, you know, probably residential design is going to come first and foremost to most folks brains, like when they think about design, because, you know, you're, you're living in it.

That's what you're experiencing every day. And, um, yeah, I guess I would just kind of assume that maybe the Toronto Public doesn't always think about all of the, the commercial spaces that we're existing in as well, you know? Um, yeah, so, and then also I just think that the amount, I think that one of the big things that also like surprised me, um, at least from a school perspective is the amount of time, the sheer amount of time and rigor that goes into designing a complete project.

Um, I think it's one of those things where no matter how well you plan or how well you, you budget your time, you're always, it [01:04:00] always feels like you're doing the 80 percent of the project in the last two weeks, right? Because it's so much of it is about like those, those finishing details that really make a space come alive.

Um, and so yeah, there was just sheer amount of hours. And I think that a lot of times it looks,

Kendra Shea: That we do. Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: I think it looks very pretty. And that's very rewarding, but it's like, there's a lot of hard work that goes into those solutions

Kendra Shea: It's not an easy road to get to the beautiful thing that you're looking at and living in or using.

Nicole Nelson: and it's not a linear path either. It's like, yeah.

Kendra Shea: go backwards, and then you go forward, and then you go way far forward, and then you're like, just kidding, we're going to reprogram this whole section for no reason, because the clients decide, and you're like, great, all right, sweet,

Nicole Nelson: I guess we're starting over. Yeah,

Kendra Shea: yeah, no, I think that's a, it is, I think it is, people don't account for design time, a lot of it, they're like, [01:05:00] yeah, you just like come up with this, and I'm like, I mean, yes, but over hours and hours and hours of analyzing and

Nicole Nelson: immediately ready to

Kendra Shea: Yeah, I didn't

Nicole Nelson: jump, jump out of your brain, out of the

Kendra Shea: I don't just like walk around like this fabric and this flooring and we're gonna like, no, I'm like, okay, does this have a good DCOF? Is it safe? Is it going to fit this application? You know, like there's so many more things that go into choosing something. It isn't just like, that's

Nicole Nelson: a hundred percent.

Kendra Shea: Before I start, but then I'm like, oh, nevermind.

Just kidding. That is 50 a square foot. That's too pretty for

Nicole Nelson: Well, and, and to your, and to your point, I think that the profession is much more technical than anyone thinks it is as well, you know, so again, like understanding of materiality. And I mean, I think, you know, structures probably maybe falls more under like engineering and architecture, but still, I think.

Kendra Shea: to talk about it. We

Nicole Nelson: You have to be able to talk about it.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, exactly. We don't necessarily are doing the drawings, but we also need to know how to have those conversations to say, here's where I need [01:06:00] my mechanical to be so that it doesn't affect this, this and this and vice versa.

And right, like all of those ways we have to understand the other trades so that we can coordinate.

Nicole Nelson: and, and having that knowledge is going to make you a better designer. Right.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I'm just double checking. You don't have any certifications, right? No, no lead or anything yet.

Nicole Nelson: Not yet.

Kendra Shea: totally fair. I was just double checking. Um, mostly I'm assuming it's because you're a newish grad and you're just like trying to figure, you know, trying to

Nicole Nelson: well, this, yeah, no,

Kendra Shea: have a plan for any of those in the future?

Mm

Nicole Nelson: a hundred percent. I think that, um, you know, this, this last year was really about like, okay, let's, let's find, let's find and land a great position of, of where I want to be. I think, um.

Kendra Shea: hmm.

Nicole Nelson: You know, I know NCIDQ, that's a process. I don't know that much about it

Kendra Shea: Totally. Okay. Totally fine.

Nicole Nelson: about like [01:07:00] a five year timeline.

Um,

Kendra Shea: That's actually very accurate.

Nicole Nelson: okay, great. Step

Kendra Shea: have five years once you kind of

Nicole Nelson: Was it once you start the process? Okay, got it. Um, yeah, so I think Eventually, you know, um, that would be something I'd like to pursue, I think, something else that I'd like to get a lot more involved with and would like to research in programs would be around sustainable design, um, you know, and understanding more about green, sustainable, healthy materials.

I think that there's quite a few people who, I think there's maybe a program at Parsons, um,

Kendra Shea: Parsons, I know Parsons has the healthy materials.

Nicole Nelson: maybe, okay, I think that's what I'm thinking. I, I, I see that from time to time, so I'm like, oh, maybe, like, that's a thing.

Kendra Shea: they have the healthy materials program. So that 1, I know a few people have done [01:08:00] so it sounds like you're definitely at some point. So do you, I kind of want to touch on sustainability a little bit. Um, do you, do you think you'll get a lead? And like, do you think you'll go for lead certification?

Or do you think you'll just kind of approach sustainability as being important, right? Like there's a baseline of it. and then maybe my second part of that question is, do you think that we're doing enough as a profession to push sustainability with our clients and with our projects?

Nicole Nelson: You're right, this is more of the big question isn't it?

Kendra Shea: it is very, it might

Nicole Nelson: was like, Ooh,

yeah. Um, again, I think that there's, there's more research that I would definitely like to do around what sort of certifications I'd like to have. And I think what makes the most sense for me. So I think, honestly, that'll, that'll be a TBD.

Um,

Kendra Shea: totally fair. There's

Nicole Nelson: in terms of sustainability as a profession, Oh, it's such a nuanced [01:09:00] answer. I feel like sometimes when I try to have

I think that sometimes when I try to have this conversation, Again, as, as being someone who's so new to the profession, I think that a lot of times,

Individual designers answers to what, oh, like, What is the most sustainable option, or, you know, design, It's like, I don't know, I feel like sometimes, It's not super clear cut, I guess, in terms of like, uh, people's feelings around, like, which materials are more sustainable than, than others. Um, I think, and, and, and currently, like, one of the projects that, you know, I'm working on, um, We do try to encourage sustainability.

It's like, how can we reuse the space? So we're not tearing everything down. Or again, you know, I think it is, it can be quite disheartening as a designer to maybe see a space that's been like redone, like in the last couple of years and it's like, you know, where, where can [01:10:00] we do like a light refresh versus a full demo?

You know, I think that that's something that's.

AEC industry accounts is like, we're one of the largest contributors to,

Kendra Shea: to waste. It's real bad.

Nicole Nelson: to waste. And so it's like, obviously that doesn't feel great. Right. So, um, you know, I do think it's obviously really important to have those conversations, um, internally as a firm, having those conversations with clients. I think it does feel promising.

I think that more clients are. Also aware of those problems and are willing to take a stance as well and try to, you know, pursue more sustainable options, whether that's, you know, adaptive reuse or. Again, choosing better and healthier materials

Kendra Shea: and choosing smarter ways. You know, I'm seeing lately a lot of, um, site trees being reused within spaces, um, trying to, like, [01:11:00] reuse portions of buildings, kind of like you're saying, so you're only renovating the parts that need to be or keeping core parts and then adding and subtracting to that. So I do think there is, we think about it a lot, right?

It is something as designers, sustainability is a big deal. Um, but it is a nuanced

Nicole Nelson: we have like a whole team

Kendra Shea: right? Yeah, exactly.

Nicole Nelson: and again, you

Kendra Shea: their whole job, right? Sustainability. I have friends who have full sustainability

Nicole Nelson: yeah, it's the full job, right? And so, yeah, I mean, again, I'm like, I'm, I'm scratching the surface. I think it's

Kendra Shea: for sure.

Nicole Nelson: want to definitely continue to learn more about, uh, but certainly I think it's super important.

Kendra Shea: yeah, but it is a nuanced conversation because, you know, as much as we push it, there is the other side where the client has to be able to and willing to pay for it, and so then it gets muddy there, right, where you're trying to do good things, but if they don't have the budget or whatever, it just becomes prohibitive, and so you're just trying to do the baseline, so it is a nuanced conversation, and that's The conversation we're having right now. [01:12:00] Um, do you think there is a need for a practice act title act or some sort of legislation in our great state of Washington? Because we have none.

Nicole Nelson: I know. And isn't that so disappointing?

Kendra Shea: I think you just answered my question. Yes, actually, it's disappointing.

Nicole Nelson: Yes. I think it's, yeah, I, um, Again, uh, I don't know a ton about it.

Kendra Shea: totally. Okay.

Nicole Nelson: it, I do think it would be great if we had legislation. I think, you know, kind of again, um, as architects are able to stamp their own drawings, I think, you know, and so many other professions. You have to have that continuing education, um,

Kendra Shea: recognized. We're just like, not recognized as a real

Nicole Nelson: right, right.

And right. And, and, and again, I think, I don't know, I mean, I don't wanna knock anyone's, um, career profession or, you know, like their, their interest. But I think again, it's like the rigor and the amount of schooling that [01:13:00] is involved. To be a designer and do certain types of design.

Kendra Shea: Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: I think like being able to be recognized for that

Kendra Shea: Yeah, well, and we talked even earlier, like, commercial interiors, like, I will tell you, because I'm, you know, this is all my jam right here. And I have spent years working towards this. I'm so proud of our IIDA and ASID just, um, so. This is fall of 2024. 

So by the time this releases, we, we have just hired a lobbyist, um, for the state. And so you should be if you're keeping eyes on IIDA and ASID and our legislative stuff, you'll be hearing more. Um, so I'm really excited because they just announced that, um, we are working towards. Getting that recognition.

Um, I believe we're going for a voluntary registration. So we're not taking away from decorators residential design. It is as a NCIDQ certified designer. you opt in to be [01:14:00] registered as such. Um, so, you know, we are, we are not taking away, and we talk about this too, it's on, on the, um, on my website from previous episodes, the Venn diagram of residential, well, you know, decorator, residential, interior, commercial interior designer and architect, and where we all kind of converge and overlap.

So, yeah, there's some really good stuff out there. Just, So I'm excited. I can't, I can't wait. There'll be good stuff

Nicole Nelson: Yeah. I think, um, you know, again, I was thinking a little bit about, you know, before hopping on today, just like in the last couple of days of like about our, our conversation today and. I'm, I'm getting excited. It's like now that I'm starting to feel like more settled in my position and, and, and stuff like that.

I'm excited to get like, re involved, um, with IDA through volunteering and, you know, again, it was just such a, such a wonderful community. I believe, you know, when I was in school, like the advocacy [01:15:00] team has really even changed in

Kendra Shea: And grown.

Nicole Nelson: Few years of of what the goals of the advocacy team has been doing.

I think a lot of it's been much more focused around legislation,

Kendra Shea: It has. They really,

Nicole Nelson: which is really cool to see.

Kendra Shea: yeah, I'm going to put myself in this bin because I was president during these years. We worked really hard to, to really build robust legislative, like advocacy and legislative teams. And we now have. Um, they've now separated it into Idaho and Washington, which makes total sense because we are separate legislative groups going for different things.

But we're still, you know, we're fundraising like crazy, um, we're doing, they're doing a lot of work. We've got, we're talking with ASID, we're working together as interior designers to kind of support this, um, while not taking away. So I think there's a lot of exciting things happening. Um, so keep your ears out.


What Does [01:16:00] diversity of design mean to you? I know that's loaded, and that's totally fine.

Nicole Nelson: Well, again, I think, I think, uh, you know, it has, it definitely has some connection to kind of hopefully what I was trying to explain before about like my design philosophy, um, in terms of. Designing for all, not designing for some and recognizing that design solutions that really cater to the masses, um, you know, rather than just a specialized group and knowing that obviously like, you know, uh, code and, and ADA is really just like the bare minimum and how much better things can be.

Um, I think that also, you know, again, just like learning about certain projects. Or,

I don't know if initiatives is the right word, but learning about designs where they're pushing [01:17:00] DEI forward to be more inclusive of different types of groups. So, um, there's actually. Starbucks is obviously from the great city of Seattle and the great state of Washington. And I remember earlier this year, um, something that, like, I was impressed by and thought was cool was some of the new changes that they're implementing into their future rollout of the stores.

To be more inclusive. So something like some of the new features that they're incorporating, it's like, um, like an updated POS system. So like the screens can tilt down more. So it's more easily accessible for different eye heights. When you put in your order, there's going to be like these visual, visual cues, so it can help with like language barrier.

Um, and again, so, I mean, you know, they're kind of. Implementing some of these changes, I'm sure. So then they probably don't have like lost products. So like, if someone's like, Oh no, I didn't actually [01:18:00] order that. Right. Like you have more of like those visual cues there. I know that they're, um, again, I think it was like, they're changing.

It's like some of like their, their counter heights. And then also it's like, I think it was like on, they were going to do more of like a reader board to tell people like when their drinks were going to be ready. So if you're maybe more like audio impaired, you have more of a visual that you can connect with to know when your, when your drink is ready.

Um, and I think that there was, yeah, and I,

Kendra Shea: Starbucks. I'm like, what? I'm like, there's too many noises.

Nicole Nelson: mean, it's like if it's loud in there and like, I think, you know, we all know that those like environments can be like really loud. They've got all the espresso machines going. And so for maybe some folks who get either like overwhelmed and like overly loud, like, um,

Kendra Shea: More ways.

Nicole Nelson: or, or hard of hearing, you know, things like that, how can, how can you make that experience more enjoyable again for everyone to

Kendra Shea: Yeah. No matter what [01:19:00] their body does or doesn't do or how they function, right? Like, yeah, no, I can totally see that. And I think that is, we try, but it's hard sometimes to go beyond the code, right? Because you're fighting. Again, it's a nuanced conversation because we over here firmly believe that code is bare minimum, but our client may think, oh, well, that's all you have to do.

And we're like, actually, it's like not

Nicole Nelson: actually like, yeah, let's make this, let's make this a little bit better. And then I think, yeah, I think another example, and I, I feel like. This project won quite a few awards, but I think that something that stood out about this project was Optimism Brewing over on Capitol Hill, and the way that they approached their restroom design, right?

Kendra Shea: Oh, the all gendered restroom,

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, and so they

Kendra Shea: now normal like that I'm

Nicole Nelson: I know, which,

Kendra Shea: and I love it. It makes me so

Nicole Nelson: right, and I love it, and so how they approached it, right, is, you know, they're having, um, each individual stalls where, you

Kendra Shea: Or the [01:20:00] ceiling. Yep. It's private in there.

Nicole Nelson: it's private, and then you come out, and it's more of like a communal, like, washing hands thing, but it just, again, when it was done, it was like,

Kendra Shea: deal.

Nicole Nelson: but it was a big deal, and it felt like it was really well executed, right, and so, just, Again, keeping those things in mind, I think, will eventually continue to push the bill forward of just like kind of what becomes more as like standard and more inclusive of all spaces everywhere.

Kendra Shea: Yeah. No, totally. Um, and my last question of the heart, the tough questions or the big questions, this isn't too bad is what do you think is driving certain trends that you're seeing in the industry? So do you think it's COVID? Do you think it's just overall safety? Is it politics? Like, what do you think is kind of driving?

The way design is being formed as a whole right now in our industry.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah, I think, you know, I think right now, at least what I am saying, I [01:21:00] feel like COVID is still been quite a big driver, I

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm.

Nicole Nelson: particularly within, you know, within workplace design. So

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Which is really what you're doing right now. So that's

Nicole Nelson: Yeah. So I mean, like, that's the like, that's what I'm doing right now. But I think it's, you know, some of these things are also applicable to retail design as well.

I think Again, um, all of a sudden, right, we're in the middle of the, we're in COVID 19, all of a sudden it's like all of this leased space is essentially becoming obsolete, right? And so everyone is re gearing, re calibrating, entire industries have changed, right, because of COVID. And so I think that that's really forcing folks to reconsider, like, how are we going to be using our space?

Um, you know, also just from a, from like an employee wellness perspective, I think that like people are so excited about having [01:22:00] like a hybrid or completely remote like work

Kendra Shea: are not happy about Amazon's back to work mandate. Let me tell you,

Nicole Nelson: I mean, I don't work at Amazon, but I

Kendra Shea: I would be so mad.

Nicole Nelson: I'm just saying the thing is, is that on, on Monday and Friday, on Monday and Friday, when I drive in, I can get in in about 40 minutes and on Tuesday through Thursday, it takes me over an hour.

Each way. And so I'm like, I'm like not really looking

Kendra Shea: not set up for this. We are not set up for

Nicole Nelson: I know. So I'm,

Kendra Shea: We don't have enough room.

Nicole Nelson: I

Kendra Shea: have good enough public transportation for that, Seattle. Sorry.

Nicole Nelson: know. I know. I know they're working on it, but it's,

Kendra Shea: It's too long, too

Nicole Nelson: slow coming,

Kendra Shea: Yeah. This non driver, I don't drive. So frustrated, let me just tell you.

Nicole Nelson: yeah.

Kendra Shea: of feelings.

That could be a whole separate podcast where I

Nicole Nelson: you do get in a car, it's just like, yeah, we're upset. Um, but yeah, so anyway, I think again, like COVID was just such a big [01:23:00] thing. And so

Kendra Shea: Yeah, and we're still seeing the repercussions of the lockdown and what that did. Flex.

Nicole Nelson: yeah. And how, how companies are maybe choosing to consolidate.

You know, like their real estate portfolio. Um, and I think to, you know, like with that being said, how they're using this space inside. I think that it needs to be pretty flexible. Um, I think that that's a big thing is, you know, how can we use this one space in five different ways? Like it's maybe not going to be dedicated for one thing. Yeah. So in a way, I think it kind of almost goes hand in hand with Sustainable design as well. It's like, okay, maybe we're using less space, but like, let's bring a different approach to design.

Kendra Shea: Multi use is bigger. Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: Yeah. And, you know, I think also when I was, um, working at Callison and, you know, I [01:24:00] also like really loved retail design, I just think like it's so fun.

It's so fast paced. Um, but you know, our Amazon COVID like really is changing. Like everyone's like shopping habits. Like, I think. There's gonna be a lot of more like online shopping, right? So how do you kind of create retail spaces to be a destination where people actually want to like come and hang out and experience something special?

Um, so, you know, seeing like a lot more like experiential design, people want those special experiences. Um, that I think, I think it's changed a lot, right? I mean, you, you like might go to the mall and there's a lot of, there's a lot of dying malls. And I think that, you know, there's, um,

Kendra Shea: like teenagers,

Nicole Nelson: cut.

Kendra Shea: like teenagers don't like I hung out at the mall as a teenager. The amount of time I spent doing nothing at the mall, like it's, it's very different. You don't go to, it's not the same. Like yeah, retail has definitely changed. Yeah. 

Nicole Nelson: No, I think.

like a lot of, a lot of, [01:25:00] a lot of flexibility. I think that, yeah, like right now, to me, it seems about flexibility, future proofing, um,

Kendra Shea: Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: just being really, I don't know, hopefully being really smart about it in, in the approach.

Kendra Shea: Yeah. For sure. No, I see that. 



[01:25:20] The Fun Stuff
---

Kendra Shea: All right. To the fun questions. I promise these are a little less stressful. Uh, do you do creative things outside of design to inspire you or anything? What do you do outside of design to inspire you?

Nicole Nelson: what do I do outside of design? Um, so I am a big traveler. I really love traveling. Um, yeah, I think I've kind of always had the, the itch for traveling. Um, I studied abroad twice when I went to UW. I did a mini study abroad. I went to India for a month. That was really amazing. I'd love to go back. Um, I spent six months in [01:26:00] France.

Um, and then actually, so after I quit my sales marketing position, I traveled by myself, um, for six months and, you know, thank goodness, like, I'm so happy that I was able to have that experience before COVID happened. So it was, yeah, March, March to September. Um, so anyway, I think it's just kind of like always drawing on some of those traveling experiences, like meeting different people, experiencing different cultures.

Um, And then, like, I, I actually have often attributed a lot of, like, my creative passions, like, I've always been very passionate about makeup. Um, when I was, like, a little girl, I remember, like, my aunt, um, had an old bag of makeup, and, um, you know, that she didn't use anymore, and, and now if I look through, you know, it's, like, the 80s,

Kendra Shea: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nicole Nelson: blue eyeshadow, hot pink lipstick, and it was, like, And it was like, no one needs to be wearing that, but it was like, as an eight year old, I'm like, [01:27:00] to me, it was like, I was

Kendra Shea: was the style

Nicole Nelson: bag of jewels.

No, yeah, no, 100%.

Kendra Shea: But now you're like, what?

Nicole Nelson: yeah, it's all about, it's all about the neutrals, you

Kendra Shea: I will say, your freaking wings are immaculate. Like, perfection. I can't do them. I've got, it's a lot of work, a lot of practice. I don't have the energy for them. My

Nicole Nelson: we, I mean, I, the thing is, is I've been, I've been doing it for a long

Kendra Shea: Yeah, and I know it takes practice. My, my niece does wings all the time and she's always like, Auntie, is this even? And I'm like, I think so.

But I'm always, I'm even impressed with her because I do it like once and my eyes like itch for two weeks. I was like, uh, I had glam makeup on the other week and I was like, my right, right eye was so itchy. I was like, Oh no. I was like, this is, I can't do this anymore. Cause I, I was a ballerina for a long time.

So I did stage makeup when I was really young, but that's like a whole different ballgame, right? You're supposed to look a little crazy close up because far away, it makes everything bigger. So I think I struggle when I do like a lot, like hardcore makeup on my day to day. I'm like, I feel like I'm in stage [01:28:00] makeup and it feels weird,

Nicole Nelson: Mm.

Kendra Shea: will say I was looking earlier and I was like, God, her immaculate perfection.

They look real

Nicole Nelson: Well,

Kendra Shea: You're

Nicole Nelson: we're having a good, I guess, I guess we're having a good Saturday. But yeah, I think for me, um, it was just always this thing that I, I, I think I found myself to be like in a flow state, um, when, when I was Jane, it was just, it was something that I found like very. Very calming. And so anyway, I actually remember I used to, I used to kind of talk about makeup and my experience with makeup is like, you know, okay, maybe I'm not drawing on paper, but like faces were my canvas and how similar it was to creating art, right?

It's like textures, layers, shadowing, um, you

Kendra Shea: Oh, it's an art form. I

Nicole Nelson: like these. Yeah. And some of the makeup artists like online are just like, it's, it's mine. It's mind blowing. Like how,

Kendra Shea: so

Nicole Nelson: they are. So

Kendra Shea: I'm like, that is such a cool skill.

Nicole Nelson: It's such a fun thing to like flex for, you know, like Halloween [01:29:00] is coming up.

So like that's super fun. Um, I did, um, bridal makeup for a while. Like I had my own Instagram for a while, but that was like too much work to try and like

Kendra Shea: Yeah. It's a

Nicole Nelson: But no, I mean, it was, it was really fun to kind of have it be like a side business, like for a bit. And, and I still do it for friends

Kendra Shea: Yeah. And for fun, obviously. So that's awesome. No, I think that's a wonderful thing. Um, I agree with you. I think makeup is an art form and to do it well and do it right takes practice and understanding of like, Faces and contouring and lines and also faces are hard. Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: is weird, so I'll say

Kendra Shea: is funky. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a whole thing.

So I, I think that's actually a really kind of great transfer of, cause I think design in the same way you're given a weird canvas, right? Like it's sometimes got funky angles or things aren't, don't quite match. Right. And you're like, okay, how do we make this work and look, you know, make it enhance it.

Right. So I don't want to say people are ugly. It's a terrible

Nicole Nelson: No, I, no, but

Kendra Shea: you know what I mean? Where [01:30:00] there's that sense of like, how do we enhance what we've already got to make it spectacular? And it's kind of that same transfer. So I'm here for it. I think that's a great thing. Um, is there a designer, artist, creative, or firm that you're really into right now?

Nicole Nelson: Oh gosh, I mean there's, there's so many. Um, uh,

Kendra Shea: Spending a lot of time scrolling through their Instagram?

Nicole Nelson: You know, what's funny is I, I follow some, some folks, um, you know, online and on Instagram. Sometimes I try and take a social media break. However, earlier this summer, um, I got to revisit one of my favorite cities in the world. Um, and, and I was like really blown away by the architecture the first time I went.

So I got to go back to Barcelona and I just love everything by Anthony Gaudi. I, like, to me it's like such a,

Kendra Shea: the way it's melting all the [01:31:00] time. I agree. I can

Nicole Nelson: I just like so, yeah, so melty. And it, yeah, it's one of those things where I just like, I remember. It was actually that was the first trip that I ever took maybe 2017 was so there's the first time I ever took a trip by myself and um But and I was like, I don't know. He's like, I don't know like not like how's this gonna go like blah blah blah I just had I had the best time.

And I think it was one of those things where I've never seen or experienced architecture like that. Um, like Casa, I'm going to butcher

Kendra Shea: I can't say it

Nicole Nelson: I don't, I don't speak Catalan.

Kendra Shea: me either. I will, it will be linked in the show notes.

Nicole Nelson: Okay, but yeah,

Kendra Shea: Wait, if anyone's curious, link it in the show notes. But if you're a designer, you should know what we're talking about.

Nicole Nelson: yeah, there's Casa Batio, obviously La Sagrada Familia, Parkway, Casa Mila, [01:32:00] and then actually on this most recent trip, I got to go to the first house that he ever designed, it was Casa Vichens, and it just, I mean, like, it's definitely maximalist. I wouldn't necessarily say that that's always, like, my Maybe that's not how I'm going to choose to decorate, like, my own, or design my own home.

Um,

Kendra Shea: the way

Nicole Nelson: textures, the colors, it's just, and also the time period that he was doing it in. It's like late 1800s, early 1900s, and such a departure

Kendra Shea: from everything.

Nicole Nelson: in the rest of the world. It was, I don't know, it's just like, such a, such a thought starter, and like, so, so impressive. Um, so

Kendra Shea: I love it. Great. Great choice.

Nicole Nelson: I just love everything that he does.

Kendra Shea: it's, I agree. It's

Nicole Nelson: a magical world,

Kendra Shea: I would love to see some of his stuff in person. So I totally see that. Do you have a favorite color?

Nicole Nelson: Orange.

Kendra Shea: Ooh. Do you have a least favorite [01:33:00] color?

Nicole Nelson: Lots of shades of purple.

Kendra Shea: You're the second person to say that to me . Which is funny, purple's my favorite color, so. I'm not offended. They're not offended. It's fine. It's color. Color is subjective. Like, I just think it's funny.

Nicole Nelson: it's true. And I, but I, and I also think, uh, correct me if I'm wrong. I think a lot of people choose favorite colors, potentially based off of like what they look good in. I, Personally,

I look awful in purple. So I, I need like, uh, since I'm, um, so fair skinned, like I often wear like deeper, richer colors that have like more of like an impact.

Like it just looks and works better on me. So like lots of pastels, it's like, oh

Kendra Shea: Not your jam. You're like, it just washes me out. Totally

Nicole Nelson: lavender.

Kendra Shea: It's not for you.

Nicole Nelson: It's not for me.

Kendra Shea: No, I think you're right. I think color is, some of it is chosen by what looks good on you. Like for me, I just like the color. I love purple. There's something about it that just, you don't find it a lot in nature.

Um, [01:34:00] that's a really loaded question for me because I will tell you probably no, because depending on what I'm doing, I want a different shade.

Nicole Nelson: Okay. No, that's

Kendra Shea: there are certain times where like, lavender is not it. It is too light and too airy, and I want a deep, dark, jewel toned purple that's gonna like,

Nicole Nelson: We'll see, and that would be much more my jam. I'd be into something like

Kendra Shea: yeah.

I think for me it's just, it feels magical, it's not something you see in nature very naturally, there's even people that'll tell, or very much, there's people that'll tell you it's not even a real color, it's just like made up in our brains. So that hurts me. Just feels magical. So I love the color and I have since I was a kid.

This is just who I am. Um, but I totally get why people are like, Oh, it's an intense color.

Nicole Nelson: I also, I don't know, I like never, I never found that many people that like, really like orange. I don't know. I

Kendra Shea: There's, I've met a few, but yeah, it's not one of those like super popular, like orange colors.

Nicole Nelson: think for me To me, I feel like it's just such a fun

Kendra Shea: Yeah.

Nicole Nelson: To me, I think it's a very like [01:35:00] fun color. Um, like it's kind of like a poppy red slash Orange is like, that's, that's my, probably my favorite orange. Um, but I just, I don't know, it feels cheerful and energetic

Kendra Shea: I like it. Yeah, no such designers to have like a whole discussion about different types of colors

Nicole Nelson: yeah, yeah.

Kendra Shea: Do you have is there a color combo you usually avoid

Nicole Nelson: Well, maybe I'd just follow up, follow that up with purple and

Kendra Shea: purple and brown What is What is your most used program? Like, what programs do you use on the regular in your work? So we talked Revit, right? Are you

Nicole Nelson: big. Yeah, Revit's really big right now.

Kendra Shea: guys using the Enscape plugin?

Nicole Nelson: yes, we'll be using Enscape. Um, and then definitely like any of the Adobe Creative Cloud Suite

Kendra Shea: Especially if you're doing slide decks.

Nicole Nelson: yeah, [01:36:00] so InDesign Decks, um, definitely some Photoshop. I don't know Illustrator as well, um,

Kendra Shea: we don't really need it as interiors.

Nicole Nelson: to me it feels more like Photoshop and like InDesign.

Yeah, I mean, so many of those tools can kind of achieve some of the same things, so you just kind of find your like your little workarounds to, to get the job done.

Kendra Shea: yeah, for sure. Uh, what is your favorite command in Revit?

Nicole Nelson: Oh, I love the array tool.

Kendra Shea: All right. Hey, yes. That's great. Perfect.

Nicole Nelson: I'm like, ooh, I want, I want six stools here, and I don't want to have to, and I don't want to have to figure out, like, the spacing in between, so you, yeah, you change it to last instead of second in the array, uh, choices, and then you, you place your two stools and then it figures out the spacing automatically for you.

I love it. Oh, and align. I mean, align

extend, okay, they're all good. Okay, anyway, they're all good,

Kendra Shea: [01:37:00] We have your top three, that's what matters. Um, all right, and last question. If you were to meet yourself just starting out in design school, that first day at Bellevue, rolling up with your bag of so many supplies, I'm sure, what advice would you give yourself?

Nicole Nelson: Oh, I love this question. That's really nice. Um, I would say continue to ask questions and, um, you know, try to, try to come in with, with an open mind, um, and probably question, like if, if people are giving you advice about what you should do with your design, um, try to, try to dig in a little bit more and understand like where they're coming from.

So hopefully it can be a learning opportunity. for you, and then you can make an informed decision that feels good to you.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, that's great. It's good advice. Um, because as a student, you get a lot of like, don't do that. And you're like, okay, but why don't I do that? Like, not just [01:38:00] because it's not done, but why? I think that's great. If you don't understand the why, dig deeper, find out, find it out. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much.

This was really great. And I loved kind of hearing all about your experience and, and your design world.

Nicole Nelson: Well, thanks, Kendra, 


[01:38:16] Outro
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Kendra Shea: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Design Over Drinks is produced, hosted, and edited by me, Kendra Shea. The podcast is also produced by Simon Shea Graphics and Cover Art by Tano design Music is by Qreepz. You can email us at Design Over Drinks pod@gmail.com. You can support us on Patreon and follow us on most social media at Design Over Drinks Pod all one word and Blue Sky at Design Overdrinks.

Find us wherever you get your podcasts.



[01:38:46] Tag
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Nicole Nelson: and I'm excited to see what happens and then we can talk in six months

Kendra Shea: Yeah, no, I'm, I'm following up

Nicole Nelson: Okay,

Kendra Shea: months. Follow up. All

Nicole Nelson: All right, sounds good. I'll add it to my calendar. [01:39:00]