Interior Design Legislation Part 2: Current Affairs

In Part 2 of our Legislative Deep Dive I talk with Matt Thompson and Megan Onley about what the current happenings in Washington State, Idaho and a bit on Alaska and Oregon. We Talk about where these states are in their journey toward legislation, what bill language might look like, the process post introduction of a bill, and ways you can take action.

Timestamps:

Welcome & Disclaimer: 00:10

Brief Legislative History: 02:09

What is a Consortium & Why is Interior Design Legislation Important?: 5:05

Current Affairs in WA, ID, & AK: 14:07

Bill Language: 27:56

Post Bill Introduction: 35:19

Future Plans: 56:37

Action Items: 1:08:03

Outro: 01:17:33

Show Notes:

As always, show notes can be found on our website.

Thanks for listening!

Design Over Drinks is Hosted, and Edited by Kendra Shea

Produced by Kendra Shea and Simon Shea

Season 3 Graphics and Cover Art by Tano Design

Season 3 Music is by Qreepz

Email: DesignOverDrinksPod@gmail.com

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BlueSky: @DesignOverDrinks

Chapters

• 0:10 Welcome & Disclaimer
• 2:09 Brief Legislative History
• 5:05 What is the Consortium for Interior Design & why is it important?
• 14:07 Current Affairs for WA, ID, and AK
• 27:56 Bill Language
• 35:19 Post Bill Introduction
• 56:37 Future Plans
• 1:08:03 Action Items
• 1:17:33 Outro

Transcript

Legislation Part 2: Current Affairs
===

[00:00:00] 

Kendra Shea: welcome


[00:00:10] Welcome & Disclaimer
---

Kendra Shea: to deep dive, where we explore one topic in depth that affects the profession of interior design. I'm your host, Kendra Shea, and we are talking about legislation for interior design.

I am super excited today to be talking with some of my favorite people. You are all doing the work right now, and since I have been out of the loop in my retirement, which is actually hilarious because I'm absolutely doing ZLF, um, I am happy to hear what is happening right now, legislation wise. So, I'm going to introduce them real quick.

First, uh, is Matt. He is our current IIDA NPC Chapter President, uh, for the Northern Pacific Chapter, if you don't know, and works for Miller Knoll. Um, Wait, what is your position again, Matt? I forgot, it's new.

Matt Thompson: Strategic relationship executive.

Kendra Shea: Perfect, thank you. And Megan is our VP of [00:01:00] Washington Advocacy, and we can officially announce the President elect for the upcoming year for IIDA Northern Pacific Chapter and Senior Interior Designer at Integris in Spokane. So, welcome!

Megan Onley: Thank you. Excited to be here.

Matt Thompson: Yeah, same. It's gonna be great.

Kendra Shea: this is gonna be fun. You know, regular IIDA meeting, but more fun and record. Y'all get to listen to us.

Matt Thompson: only done these a few times. Yeah.

Megan Onley: it's around our favorite topic, so we can talk all day.

Kendra Shea: Uh, it feels like one of those, like, noon meetings we have where we're like, Okay, we're gonna get stuff done. Uh, so this is what we sound like on a regular basis, guys. We just talk for hours.

Megan Onley: Yes.

Kendra Shea: Before we get going, I'll note a little bit of context for our listeners. This conversation will be centered around the work being done in the IIDA Northern Pacific Chapter, focusing on Washington and Idaho, but we will also touch on Alaska and other surrounding states and chapters.

We're going to do a brief overview here real quick, but if you [00:02:00] want more in depth info, please listen to the first episode in the series where we talk about how we got to where we are today.

And as always, there will be links to resources in the show notes. 


[00:02:09] Brief Legislative History
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Kendra Shea: First Push for legislation in our region was a little over 20 years ago. This was led in Washington State by IDCW, or the Interior Design Coalition of Washington. At the time, the movement in Washington didn't have the support of residential designers and experienced resistance from AIA Washington. Lots of lessons learned, including the importance of building partners across our industry.

We started to see the national shift in 2021. NCARB, the organization that facilitates the licensure and credentialing of architects, and CIDQ, which facilitates the licensure and credentialing of interior designers, released a joint comparison report finding the professions of architecture and interior design, while similar in practice and required knowledge, are unique and distinct disciplines [00:03:00] that both have an important role in protecting the health, safety, and welfare.

The findings released in the joint report led AIA National to officially change their stance on interior design legislation. The new position eliminates outright opposition to Interior Design Licensure, and due to the change, AIA state components are no longer compelled by AIA National to oppose Interior Design regulation proposals in their jurisdiction.

For Washington, IIDA NPC Chapter Presidents began conversations with other interior design professional organizations. In Idaho, not long afterward, we began conversations with ASID's Intermountain Chapter, which encompasses Utah, which does have legislation.

That work led to the fairly newly formed Consortium for Interior Design, Washington and Idaho. We'll talk more in a moment about what makes up these consortiums in each state and why they are important.

NPC also built strategic plans for those states as well as bolstered our support for Alaska. From the IIDA website, as of [00:04:00] right now, 29 states plus Washington, D. C. and Puerto Rico, for a total of 31 jurisdictions, have some type of legal recognition related to the regulation of interior design. All Canadian provinces are regulated.

Interior design is typically regulated via two types of law, practice acts and title acts. In some cases, the title act is accompanied by additional practice rights or permitting privileges. In jurisdictions with practice acts, designers must register with the state. In jurisdictions with title acts, registration with the jurisdiction is voluntary and comes with a protected title. 

This is grassroots change on a state by state basis, but we also find that success can come in pockets. One state in a region passes legislation, and often surrounding states are soon to follow. Momentum is growing, especially here in the PNW. Oregon as well as Alaska are working towards legislation.

Kendra Shea: To get their bills through, having the surrounding states succeed as well in legislation can only help. And this leads us [00:05:00] to where we are now. 


[00:05:05] What is a Consortium & Why is ID Legislation Important?
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Kendra Shea: Okay, Matt and Megan, let's do this. we're talking legislation today. Um, I feel like this might be a little bit of a crunchy episode, just like my last one. , so feel free to take it slow. We are here to break it down. , We've got, as Megan said, we got all the time.

Matt Thompson: Yep.

Kendra Shea: We love talking about this. So I think the first thing we're gonna start off with is like, and I talked about it a little bit in the last episode, but I'd love for you to to define it better. Let's start with what is a consortium for interior design? who are they? What do they do? Why are they important?

Matt Thompson: Yeah, great question. Um, you know, as, as, as you hit on in the history, we've had a, a couple of ways that we've done this work in the past as, um, professionals, um, we've worked with through coalitions, um, which generally is a different group of people coming together and forming kind of a, a separate entity, um, funding it separately and kind of moving together and working, um, on that, yeah.

As a joint action. [00:06:00] Um, but over the years we've moved away from the, that formation. And now we're working in a consortium, which is essentially a group of people coming together to form an agreement and to work on something together. Um, and at the national level, uh, this consortium, the consortium for interior design actually started, um, actually I think it's going to hit its two year mark, um, this coming March and that's comprised of IIDA, so the international interior design association, ASID, the American society of interior design.

And CIDQ, which is the Council for Interior Design Qualification. So that's at the national level. Those three groups came together, um, to form the consortium and to agree on a path forward, um, on how they wanted to work on this advocacy topic around legislation for interior design. And then they allow each state or chapter, um, to join as a consortium themselves within the state.

Again, comprised of the state chapter of IIDA, the state chapter of ASID, and then the national component of CIDQ. [00:07:00] And that's been really helpful for us here, and we'll talk about kind of some of the reasons why, but Here locally in Washington and Idaho. It's been really helpful because it's actually brought two of the main professional organizations for interior design together.

Um, ASID and IIDA who historically maybe didn't always see eye to eye or weren't always very close or had that opportunity to get to know each other. So here in Washington, specifically, and Idaho, um, We've really enjoyed that. Um, we were really close now to our, our friends over at ASID. Um, I talk to Helen, the president of ASID, often.

Um, Megan and I are in meetings with her often. Um, we're working on some joint collaborative, um, um, programming even outside of advocacy. So it's been a really wonderful driver.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, that's really cool. And so I think to be very clear, Northern Pacific Chapter has, we technically have three consortiums signed, right? One with

Matt Thompson: Too formal. I

Kendra Shea: formal, or is Alaska like unofficial, but we're supporting?

Matt Thompson: I believe, yeah, that's how, um, [00:08:00] Megan and I dabble in Alaska. We're, we're, we're heavily focused in Idaho and, and, um, Washington. In Idaho and Washington, we are under formal consortiums. Um, again, a consortium in, in this instant is a non legally binding document, but it is a document that both organizations Um, agree to work together through kind of a joint partnership, and that can be and that can be determined in different ways.

And again, in Washington, it's with the ASID Washington state chapter in Idaho. It's with our Intermountain ASID counterparts, which covers a couple different states.

Kendra Shea: Very important. That's really cool. Um, so I think then the follow up question, what follows that is, so cool, we make consortiums. Cool interior designers want legislation. If you're not in the profession and you don't have all the, you know, the knowledge we do right now, why is it important that interior designers get legislation?

Megan?

Megan Onley: Yes, I'll take that 1 [00:09:00] on and I feel like it is it's it's very layered like an onion. Um, so really, it starts with what is commercial interior design and who are we impacting? And so this occupational regulation would be in regards to code impacted built environment spaces. So those public spaces that everyone interacts with and so thinking well.

I interact with these, but does this really matter? And yes, it does. And so that's thinking on regards to spaces like healthcare environments, clinics, nursing homes, hotels, schools for our children, schools for higher education, workplace, libraries. We all touch these spaces, if not daily. Um, But how we impact those are through building code requirements being met fire and life safety concerns and emergency egress.

And we know in many states, um, traumatic events have happened around those 2 big topics, meaning the wrong materiality being specified. So, smoke inhalation being a big [00:10:00] contributor to. An event that then spurs legislation for interior designers being validated. Um, so really, I think a big 1 through my advocacy journey.

This past couple of years has been the impact of universal design as well. And how, um. We all will be directly impacted or adjacently impacted by universal design in public spaces and how we get around how our friends and our families get around in spaces. Is it designed for them? Is it designed for all?

And that's where an interior designer is educated, examined and experienced to uphold these standards and they're qualified to. Do this in the built environment to their fullest capabilities, and that's what legislation would really allow for us. And the last 1 to not take it too long is the sustainable impact.

So that's kind of a hot topic right now, but really, it's the healthy materiality aspect. So those, that volatile organic compound, [00:11:00] the inhalation that we're experiencing. Is it directly impacting us today? Or is it. impacting us throughout our lives. So, knowing that interior designers fully have to look at those items in regards to LEED certification and our impact on these environments that we're fully touching and our specialization is contributing to.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, I think, no, go ahead.

Matt Thompson: can jump into it, and I think for the listeners that maybe aren't as familiar with, um, with what an interior designer does, because out in the world, there's all this varying difference in what an interior designer does, or what somebody might how somebody might affect space. Um, you know, Megan in the. The teams that do this professional commercial interior design work are ensuring that the tile that goes on the floor has the right, uh, uh, attributes to it so it doesn't become too slippery when wet.

Right.

Kendra Shea: baby.

Matt Thompson: exactly. What's DCOF stand for?

Kendra Shea: Can't remember.

Megan Onley: Coefficient of friction. Yeah.

Matt Thompson: Good job,

Kendra Shea: practicing designer, sometimes

Megan Onley: love our acronyms. [00:12:00] Do we know exactly what they are?

Kendra Shea: I have entire episodes about breaking down acronyms for that reason.

Matt Thompson: I was going to say, Kendra, you probably may want to have a glossary at the end of the, at the end, the

Kendra Shea: Yeah, we might just have a whole layman's ask just on this episode so we can go through everything.

Matt Thompson: I think that's, but I think that's the important thing that Megan and I take a lot of time to remind people about is that, yeah, there's, there's the, and we'll talk more about this, I'm sure, but there's, there's the fun part of interior design, which is the color and the space away or way of space feels.

Um, but those things all have really important. Underlying things that happen. Is that going to be a safe space? Am I going to slip when I step on that tile? That's wet out at the entry of a of a school. Um, how is that stairway designed or that exit designed or how is that space designed in a way so people can move through it freely and safely?

Um, that's where the health safety welfare piece of the occupational regulation comes in for interior designer. So I just wanted to kind of like highlight that piece that Megan hit on because that really is the differentiator. I think when people [00:13:00] think about interiors, commercial interior design.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, yeah, there, there is a difference and there's definitely a misunderstanding. Of actually all of the different ways you can practice design, you know, and the decoration is a part of design and then you can head residential, which is its own special beast of knowledge, uh, versus commercial, which is, again, also its own special beast of knowledge.

Megan Onley: And, and knowing they're all okay spaces, and I think this is where we're, we're shining a light on the commercial interior designer, the code impacted, where all of the other spectrum of interior designers, they have their light and they have their, their way of, of operating within our field. And this is just expanding what we can do as interior designers and code regulated spaces.

Kendra Shea: Yep, we aren't taking away, we're just adding, um, and I think that's a big part of that messaging that I think we've all, you know, even from when I was doing my part a few years ago, I think that was really the big part of it is nothing is getting taken away. We are just adding more, [00:14:00] um, and more protection for us, um, as, and the public, yeah, protection for everybody.

Matt Thompson: Yep, exactly.


[00:14:07] Current Affairs for WA, ID & AK
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Kendra Shea: Awesome. Okay, so I think now we're going to kind of break down each state a little bit and find out where each one is on their journey, um, as of right now. So let's start with Washington.

Matt Thompson: So, um, in Washington, we're doing a really important part of this, um, advocacy and legislative work, um, which is, is called stakeholdering. And this is when we, um, meet and talk and discuss and collaborate, um, and hopefully partner, um, with others, um, in the built environment or other stakeholders that have kind of, um, Um, A feeling that they would like to make sure it gets across when it comes to this topic.

And so, you know, it's, it's an exciting time right now. Um, and we'll talk and I think you shared a little bit about the history of how we've gotten here from an AIA [00:15:00] standpoint and others. Um, but we're. Um, and at the time that this is published, this may already be a little more public, but we're excited right now, um, to share that the Consortium for Interior Design Washington, which is comprised of IIDA Northern Pacific Chapter and ASID Washington, and the AIA Washington Council are currently collaborating through a joint task force, um, process to explore 2026 legislation for commercial interior designers in Washington State.

Yeah.

Kendra Shea: I'm doing a happy dance, everyone.

Matt Thompson: That's a really, that's a really big thing. So as Kendra discussed the history piece, you know, , AIA changed their their national stance from opposed to neutral, allowing states and state chapters to decide how they wanted to move forward in this topic. And if they wanted to be supportive or neutral or opposed, and we are Excited and optimistic that the work we're doing right now with AIA Washington Council will lead to something exciting and successful.

Um, there's still a lot of work to do, so we'll see where we end up. Um, but that's where we're at. [00:16:00] Uh, that work takes time, though. So we had, you know, you you go into this work with an idea of timeline and when you hope to hope to see some action. Um, but as Kendra shared, this action, um, is long and not short.

It's a marathon, not a race. And right now we're in the middle of the marathon. Um, and our timeline shifted a little bit in order to do this task force work, um, which we think is actually really important.

Kendra Shea: Woop,

Megan Onley: what's exciting, too, is we have hired our lobbyists for Washington state.

Kendra Shea: woop.

Megan Onley: he's heavily involved in this task force and he's also in session right now. So he's keeping us apprised of bills that may involve interior designers or impact us in a way. Um, so he's definitely. Intrinsic to our movement as well,

Matt Thompson: Yeah, definitely. And then, you know, as, um, sorry,

Kendra Shea: No, go

Matt Thompson: Oh, yeah. So as, as Kendra mentioned, kind of in the history piece, so, um, in carb, which is the testing body, um, for the architects and CIDQ, which is a testing body, um, the qualification testing body for interior [00:17:00] designers released a joint report in 2021, um, showing that there was actually a high percentage of similarities between the 2 tests, um, that, that, These different professionals were taking the architects and interior designers.

Um, and that it was anywhere from 60 to 80%, um, depending on, on the, on the section of the, the, the tests and all of this is online. You can go find this disjoint

Kendra Shea: It'll be linked in the last episode show notes because I looked at it and talk about it a little bit. So, yeah.

Matt Thompson: Great. And it was wonderful. We actually in a recent task force meeting, we had two folks join us who were actually in the room where it happened, Hamilton style, when all of that work was happening, which was really great to hear how they did that, how they worked through, um, words that are similar, but different scope. What does scope mean to an architect? What does scope mean to a designer, interior designer? What does site mean to an architect? What does site mean to an interior designer? How is that similar or different? Working through all of that, then released a joint report, which then obviously helped [00:18:00] AIA move to neutral nationally.

Um, there's also some work happening with ICOR, which is the International Council of Regulatory Boards, or something along those

Kendra Shea: Again, it's in the last

Matt Thompson: at afterwards. Yeah. Um, there's an overlap task force. Yeah. There's an overlap task force right now working, um, to look at overlap or similarities, um, between a lot of professions, architects, um, uh, engineers, interior designers, landscape, I think is in that one too.

Um, so there's a ton of work right now across the built environment to, um, kind of work together and work collaboratively to move forward because as we're seeing, and I'll get to some. Other state I'll get to Idaho in a second, but as we're seeing kind of across the country is a somewhat move to deregulation and we'll talk about this.

I'm sure later. Um, but it's really wonderful that all these different built environment groups are starting to come together to collaborate because we all are stronger together than we are apart. Um, and so that's some really exciting stuff. And then the last big thing that's really helped support the work, both in Washington, Idaho and Alaska, and really across [00:19:00] the country is, um, the model bill language that was approved by CIDQ in the fall of 2024, 

, Stakeholders are reviewing at that at all the national level and we're using that model bill language as the kind of framework for bill language in Washington and in Idaho and other states as well across the country. Um, so that was really kind of a huge impact on the work here in Washington,

Megan Onley: I think to focusing a little bit on that model bill language is that it was built around states that had involvement or neutrality. And so it's been looked at upon by other built environment fields. So it's. doesn't come from just

Kendra Shea: from nowhere. And I was going to say, in my research, uh, the last few states that have just gained kind of practice acts, Stamp and Steal privileges the last few years, it has all been in conjunction with their local AIA and unopposed. Um, I want to say like Nebraska, Wiscon- I can't remember.

Listen to the last episode. That's where it is. Oklahoma.

Matt Thompson: the place less [00:20:00] place that was less that was mostly

Kendra Shea: and, and so I think that shows that we do need to get all the parts and pieces together before we start just like going out. I think that's the big lesson we learned in 2005 when we went for legislation the first time in Washington State, um, is, is you need to bring everyone to the table and we need to all be having that conversation before we step in.

So

Megan Onley: And it's a, a matter of education too, like that you don't know what you don't know. A lot of architects I've spoken to have said, oh, you guys don't have regulation. And I'm like, no, we do not. Let's talk about it. So I think it's just bringing it about and educating architects and the like of what we do and on our daily basis, how we practice and how we want to practice fully and whether you want to practice to the full extent or not, just having that ability.

To do that, I think, is a biggie.

Matt Thompson: Yeah. Um, so then in Idaho, uh, we talked about Washington. We'll I'll move on to Idaho. Um, Idaho is in a very similar path that we're in right now in Washington. I'm doing a lot of [00:21:00] stakeholdering. Um, we actually, um, depending on when this episode comes out, we actually have capital day coming up on March 6th in Boise,

um, which is great, which is exciting. So March 6th is capital day in Idaho. Um, I'll be down there. Yeah, I'll be down there doing that and talking to legislators and supporting the designers, the professionals in Idaho. Um, they have a little bit different process in Idaho. Um, they have to move through a separate committee, um, in order to kind of Have the occupational regulation piece kind of reviewed first before introducing legislation.

And so the team, our wonderful VP of Idaho advocacy, Katie Edwards and her director May Myers and the team. There are really doing exceptional work in partnership with with ASID Intermountain, to get the groundwork going to get people excited to build some great programming. Um, and then to do this, this legislator engagement that's kind of timed.

Um, differently in Idaho than Washington. That's why they're a little bit more engaged with the legislator piece than we are in Washington. Um, so they'll go [00:22:00] through this committee process this year. Um, and then with plans to introduce legislation in 26, um, pending how the committee process goes this year.

So, um, really exciting times, um, in both states, um, really from, uh, um, uh, from our point of view, and that's two of our three. And Megan, do you want to talk a little bit about our third state, Alaska?

Megan Onley: also touching on Idaho and their engagement with their Idaho AIA as well, that they're involved in talking with them. So we're all in that process too, just getting ahead of everything and creating those lines of communication, which we have every day in our offices. So it's, it seems silly, but we're all doing that

Kendra Shea: Idaho was a fun surprise. I remember getting that email and Katie was like, we're talking. I was like, what? This is so exciting. It was one of those, like, I didn't see it coming during my president year because we were so focused on Washington at the time. And it was such a wonderful thing to be like, okay, this, this isn't just us.

This feels like a movement with Idaho and, you know, um, Alaska. Hello.

Megan Onley: yeah, [00:23:00] and I think architects definitely have started to embrace and really foster and help us be allies within the industry and see our values. So just being pleasantly surprised is always a great thing within advocacy, I think, is you go in expecting nothing and maybe you'll get something and you never know.

Matt Thompson: Yeah, for sure.

Megan Onley: Yeah. And Alaska, circling back now, so they've got a lot going on, I will say. Um, they submitted a bill last year in 24. It went through and made it to the floor. It then was filibustered within the legislature on a different bill. And their bill then did not get to go any farther. So that means a stop to their bill.

So they restarted this whole process again. Um, in 2025, they have reviewed their bill, um, with their lobbyist and they have had conversations with A. I. A. They're on a different path with them, but they have then submitted their bill to the legislature in 2025. Um, it is doing its thing. I don't think [00:24:00] there's any movement as of yet, but it is.

It is out there and it is public and they are meeting with, um, their legislature at capital days and such and doing the education work and working with people to speak on behalf of their bill language. So another exciting piece that came out of this was the Alaska Business Magazine reached out to Dana Nunn, who is one of the point people in Alaska, and she was able to be interviewed.

by this magazine on what is legislation, and that article wasn't intended to be about legislation, but it just so happened to turn that direction when the interviewer found this was going on and realized, why don't we talk about it? And so I think that's a big message here is that you don't know what you don't know.

And when people find out about this being an issue. It does impact others. And so, um, we'll have Kendra send that article out with episode one just so people can read it [00:25:00] because it's exciting to

Kendra Shea: I'll definitely link that, that episode in the show notes for people, because I think, again, it all goes back to messaging and understanding what we do. I think there, again, people, the general public thinks we just pick paint color. Architects don't always understand that we actually have some of the formal training they do.

And so it's, it's messaging with the kind of the backing of the government to say, Hey, this is a real thing. They do a lot of very hard code impacted work. Yeah.

Megan Onley: care about it, and we want to uphold it, and we want to have regulation around our profession. Not every profession can say that. I feel like us saying like, Hey, hey, regulate us,

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Yeah.

Megan Onley: we're, we're wanting that, and it's not always desired. So it is an interesting flip of the coin for some other professions.

Matt Thompson: And for the, for the listeners, the, a really easy way we think about this every day is, uh, there are three E's. So, um, we have education examination through the NCIDQ and then we have the experience. So we've, we have field experience and on the job [00:26:00] and specification experience. And so together, those three E's just like architects and other, and other professional professional organizations have, um, with those three E's, um, we then are able to really work, uh, Well, and, and understand code regulated spaces and specify product, um, and, and interiors and finishes on the way it should be to help support the health safety where for it to protect the health safety where for the public.

So those 3 E's really tied directly into the health safety welfare piece that we talk about all day. Every day. Megan and I, Megan and I say the 3 E's all the time.

Megan Onley: Yeah.

Kendra Shea: graphics.

Megan Onley: Yes, we do that. Go see our website. We've got a lot of great volunteers that have created like amazing graphics to either spell this out or the CIDQ website has a million informational videos on what are we talking about? How do you say it? And I think that's a big piece to through this advocacy journey is your elevator pitch.

Why is this important? What are the things that I need to say to a [00:27:00] legislator to my mom, to a student, um, To this movement, and I think that that's the big one is the three E's going to our website, going to CIDQ's website, watching this information, because the only way you're going to get better about speaking about this is parodying and saying the stuff that we all know is right around this movement, and I think a big one, too, that we've found is That scope, and so that non seismic, non structural interior construction, that's, that's really what we're trying to define is an interior designer's scope, and when to call the right professional.

So when to call a structural engineer, when to call an architect, when we can call an interior designer to do a project, and when an interior designer can say, this is out of bounds, this is someone else's scope. So that's outside of the last question, but we kind of just went on and on, sorry.

Kendra Shea: Love a rant.

Megan Onley: Yes.

Kendra Shea: It's not good without a rant. No, that's perfect.


[00:27:56] Bill Language
---


[00:28:00] 

Kendra Shea: Um, so I think we can kind of loop now around to a little bit more specificity around what the bill language will look like. Um, I know each state will be a little bit different, but I do think there are some kind of general things we're going for, um, that we can kind of talk about.

Uh, Megan?

Megan Onley: Yes, and so we'll start with Washington. Um, so we're pursuing a title act with stamp and seal privileges and so that's a voluntary registration. A practice act is mandatory. So that's the difference there between the 2. our title would be a registered commercial interior designer. Um, we've came to that name agreement with a lot of our stakeholders being involved over the past.

Many years, um, of looking at how can we define what we're trying to regulate and, um, our legislation is based on our model. Um, our model language in Washington right now. And we're working [00:29:00] with a, like, we said, in Idaho, their title act with stamp and seal will be a registered interior designer and they'll be voluntary as well.

And in Alaska, they're also pursuing a registered interior designer title.

Matt Thompson: And just some, some framework there too, is, um, it's again, it's a marathon, not a race. And so these are, these are the aspirational goals that we've set forth, um, as, as kind of the executive board for, for the chapter and, and our advocacy teams, um, for each state, um, as we all know, uh, things. Things can shift and change and, and adjust.

Um, and so these are the aspirational goals, but as we move through task force work in Washington and committee processes in Idaho, um, and then you pass a bill and then you move to rules and regulations, um, after it bills passed, uh, where we are. Where we hope to be today and where we end up at the end of, well, there's never really an end advocacy, but later in the process, um, can be [00:30:00] quite different.

Um, we, we have some, we have some stuff we're not gonna give and, and, and other things, of course, but, um, but I just always like to make it clear to folks

Kendra Shea: There is movement here.

Matt Thompson: yeah, we're gonna do our best to hold strong on a lot of things and, and we will. Um, but there's also places to shimmy a little bit.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, well, and I think there's some major pieces, you know, so title act instead of a practice act, and I think, and I don't think I had this in, in my previous episode the same way, I kind of break it like what both are, but I think the simplest is title act is voluntary, a practice act is a required, um, Uh, registration, and then stamp and seal privileges are like an attachment to those other acts, um, and that defines things.

Um, so I think, but I do think the big things are, again, what, uh, was it registered interior designer? What was the

Megan Onley: Yeah. So registered

Kendra Shea: interior designer?

Megan Onley: is for Idaho and Alaska at this moment. And then Washington, we're pursuing registered commercial

Kendra Shea: interior designer.

Megan Onley: and you [00:31:00] see both nationally. There's not really a right or wrong here. One has more words, one doesn't, but it's really just based on what's deemed acceptable by your stakeholders, your state, your, your allies and those involved in the movement.

Matt Thompson: Yep. Exactly.

Kendra Shea: That makes sense. And I think we should always note the existing law, and I always know Washington's, um, I believe, is it under 4, 000 square feet? 

Megan Onley: It is yes, and we are not deeming to touch

that, within Washington. So that would allow those to practice with whether they're an unlicensed architect or an unlicensed interior designer under 4000 square feet. That is still safe space to be in commercially or residentially. We're wanting to allow interior designers that are registered and certified with their NCDQ to practice above 000 square feet within code regulated spaces.

So it's kind of a mixed, um, thing, but we're not changing

Kendra Shea: not changing what's already here and is [00:32:00] already kind of the laws we are working under.

Matt Thompson: Yeah, and just and again, I'm always thinking maybe about the maybe I'm always thinking about like maybe our parents who are listening to this that don't understand what we do every day. Um, stamp and seal. Let's talk about let's clarify that

Kendra Shea: yeah, let's do it.

Matt Thompson: um, anytime anything is built in the city that has to be permitted by the city.

it has to go through permit review and plan review in that jurisdiction. And there's a stamp on that drawing that that It says this has been reviewed by a professional who knows what they're doing, essentially, and is written as a registered professional with the state.

Megan Onley: and it's held liable

Matt Thompson: held liable.

That's a good point. Yes. And it's held liable that they've actually done it correctly. And where we, you know, what we're asking for is, is that interior designers that have the three E's education, examination and experience should be held and want to be held to the same level of responsibility of knowledge and safety and all the other things that go into a space to be able to do that stamp on those drawings that meet the [00:33:00] scope requirements that will be laid out in the bill that doesn't touch seismic, that doesn't touch um, Um, uh, uh, structural, uh, but we want to have the ability to stamp those drawings and be responsible and held responsible for for the knowledge that it takes to build those spaces.

So, um, right now, interior designer can't do that. If an interior designer were to work on a project like Megan, uh, she would need to go to an architect that is registered and ask them to review their drawings and to stamp them, um, which has a cost and pay them, which has

Kendra Shea: Either you do or it goes on to your client, which is what I do. I make my client pay for the architect. Thank you.

Megan Onley: Yes.

Matt Thompson: So that, so that, that affects the public and that affects, um, the consumer. Um, and so, yeah. Uh, so that, so that's the kind of, that's the why behind the stamp and seal addition to the title act. Um, we want people to be able to register and then actually have the, the ability to say I am a professional and actually take the responsibility of the drawing set to say that they've met all the requirements set out by code.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, I have to have [00:34:00] that insurance anyway. Might as well, like,

Megan Onley: As a business

Kendra Shea: yeah. And, and I talk about it a little bit in the last one. For me as a business owner, when I started this business, our lawyers and everyone was like, well, this is for, they're like, well, like this. And I'm like, but I'm not an architect. And so I didn't have the same tax deductions.

I, they didn't know where to place me, how to categorize me, because I'm not a legal profession. But I'm not an architect. And they were so confused. The number of phone calls we had to have to be like, I'm neither of those things. I'm a professional thing, but I'm not regulated, so I'm not an architect. It was

Megan Onley: I think that goes. Like, that's the independent firm owner aspect

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm.

Megan Onley: interior designer working in an architectural firm space. And what is a professional and some professional service corporations within Washington have to have legally identified professionals to be owners of their practices.

And so what that means is we don't have a lot of interior design representation within those corporation types. And so legislation would. [00:35:00] Allow interior designers to be in that space too. So opportunities of ownership, opportunities of small women owned businesses. We know we are 93 percent NCIDQ women holders within Washington state.

And so that would contribute to a lot of that being possible.

Kendra Shea: Yeah. I think that's really important. 


[00:35:19] Post Bill Introduction
---




Kendra Shea: We've talked a little bit about the language, what it'll look like. So we go in, let's say we go in in 2026 and it doesn't pass, which is not crazy. Very rarely, uh, do you pass the first time. What, what would then the next steps be? 

Matt Thompson: We do it again, yeah, one thing, one thing you learn

in this world and I tell people, all the time, jokingly because I really do am excited and honored to be a president, , of the chapter. , I never thought I'd work in politics, but here I am working in politics, um, and politics like is not, is non ending and it's constant, um, and it [00:36:00] keeps going.

So if, if we pass a bill. In 26, we move on to the post bill stuff, which is rules and regulations, and we have to encourage people to actually register as professionals and update their NCIDQ status from, uh, if they need to, or to take the test, right, because we want to increase our professionals in the industry.

Um, if we don't pass, um, then we, we take a step back and we look and see why. Um, what, what happened? Why didn't we pass? Where were the issues? Um, and then we would work those issues, um, and then work through to get back to reintroduction. Um, you know, um, It not to bring in current politics into it, but there's a lot going on in the world right now.

Everything is political and political is really local too. So yeah, we can't stop. It's going to be constant. And there actually is. There actually is some, um, you know, I kind of believe that the timeline is actually kind of maybe going to help us out because there's a lot of distractions right now, um, in state capitals, um, that are, that are [00:37:00] bigger.

Um, Arguably, maybe then some of the stuff we're talking about with legislators and so the timeline that we're on right now actually may be beneficial to us to kind of get out of the haze of current politics in the world into something that might be kind of a little less hazy, a little less

Kendra Shea: there's, I mean, right, politics never ends, it is never not weird and crazy, but at least it might settle to a place where we aren't shouting in a void, in a time when there's a lot of really big issues that need to be addressed at a Capitol, right? Right? Yeah,

Megan Onley: and working on relationships, too. Like Matt was saying, like, in Idaho, they're really doing their capital days. We haven't done that yet because we're stakeholdering right now. And so getting to those legislators and talking about a, a bill that isn't there quite yet, we're not there, but we are still talking to our relationships that we're building with our legislators and that will never stop.

And so,

Kendra Shea: having, in Washington, having our lobbyist kind of be our eyes and ears and having that person there will make it easier for us [00:38:00] exactly to know when it's time and when what makes the most sense because none of, you know, none of us are politicians. We are just volunteer presidents or volunteers running, you know, running a professional chapter of professional organization and doing our best to support ourselves.

But at the end of the day. We hit a point, we usually all hit a wall, and I remember hitting it as president where I was like, I don't know what to do anymore. Like, this is beyond my knowledge. Like, HQ, where do we go? And so having that, that third party, the person in it on behalf of us, I think is one of the most important things we can do

Megan Onley: And I think that's, That's a big piece with Michael Transue is he says, you guys know this content, they want to hear from you, and he knows when to use us, and he knows when to get his relationships going, but he wants us to, us to shine and say why this is important to our legislators who we vote for and put in those places, so we want to be heard and our time will come when we all are at the Capitol in Washington and in Idaho.

Kendra Shea: before the horse, [00:39:00] right? Like, you have to take it step by

Matt Thompson: Yeah, I mean, I think even what what we're finding too is having having a lobbyist and being a little more engaged on what's happening down at Olympia. Yeah, we're not. We're not directly talking. We're doing kind of tertiary talking about our bill or what's happening and introducing ourselves. But we're also finding out about other legislation that's coming out.

That could affect us. Um, there was, there was recently a bill that was introduced that we felt like could affect our industry and that bill has now shifted and, and, and is less impactful to us. Um, but we wouldn't have really been paying that much attention if we didn't have somebody kind of on the ground and helping elevate those things.

And so we're actually becoming. Um, kind of more educated and a more professional advocacy organization through this work outside of just kind of the direct occupational licensing and occupational regulation work, which is good, I think, because it helps us and helps us educate our members, um, which we have nearly 500 members,

Kendra Shea: Guys, yeah! Hell yeah, we're growing!

Matt Thompson: Um, you know, not quite [00:40:00] to pre covid numbers, but we're, we're headed back in that direction. Um, uh, but that really helps us be able to kind of educate our members and, and show them that and, and the, the tertiary others in the built environment. That we are a professional organization that is engaged and, and aware of what's happening kind of across our state and our governments and our, um, country, which is exciting.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so, we kind of, you briefly touched on what we would do,

Matt Thompson: We're snaking back and forth between topics.

Kendra Shea: like any good discussion, we're all over the place. Um, so, but you mentioned, so say we pass. Okay, other side, other timeline, boo. Say we pass in 2000, wow, 2006, different time, 2026. You talked, the next step would then be rules and regulations.

So what is that exactly? And what does that look like?

Matt Thompson: Do you want, do you want me to talk about it, Meg, or do you wanna

Megan Onley: I do,

Matt Thompson: Yeah.

Megan Onley: and then I'll, I'll spitball off of you.

Matt Thompson: Yeah. So, you know, I think we're still learning what rules and regs are, so, but what happens is, so, um, for, again, for listeners that aren't, aren't familiar with [00:41:00] this, with this maybe is, um, so most states, I won't say all 'cause I don't, I can't guarantee all, but most states have maybe an architectural board or a, a, a board that, that, that is, um, state appointed, normally governor, governor appointed, um, that help.

Run the regulation of an occupation. So in Washington, we have the architectural board, um, and other states, they might've joined with landscapers or engineers or something.

Kendra Shea: Or like , Alabama has their own, for instance, what depends state by state.

Matt Thompson: Yep. And so that's, that's, um, state appointed. It's part of the state government and that's the people that actually help process the regulation piece. And so after a bill passes, we've outlined kind of some of the scope and other stuff within our bill that we'd like to see, and it moves through a process called rules and regs, where.

They actually start to define all of the rules and regulations associated to that occupation or that licensing, um, and that's in partnership with us and the stakeholders. And then also with the, with the board itself, that actually helps run this. Um, [00:42:00] and so that's where they would define what our state, I mean, everything down to like what the stamp looks

Kendra Shea: Can it be round or triangle or

Megan Onley: Does it look different than other

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Um

Matt Thompson: it, how is your nameless? And like all, like all the way down to that detail to all of the other rules and regulations that would come into play be

Kendra Shea: What you would pay if there's a penalty? What?

Megan Onley: How much your registration will

Kendra Shea: fees are

Megan Onley: Because you will be paying for your NCIDQ certification, just as an architect pays for their, their NCARB license, and then you pay your state registration fee, which is a deemed dollar amount, but ours is voluntary, but just knowing that's a separate fund that then funds our board and funds the, the joint board nature as

Matt Thompson: yeah. And so what are what we're currently aspirationally setting a goal for is that we would join the architectural board in Washington state. Because again, we we look as we look at it as we are a built environment that works collaboratively every day. And so we would like to see this architectural this [00:43:00] architectural and interior design board kind of be a joint board that we would join.

Um, and then that board helps kind of run things from an occupational licensing registration standpoint. Um, and that generally includes a certain number of architects. If we joined a certain number of interior designers, and then generally 1 person from the public that has no connection to the industry as a whole to either of the industries as a whole.

Kendra Shea: Our current architectural board, when I looked two years ago, was all men and the one public person was a woman.

Megan Onley: They now have two, two

Kendra Shea: Yes! Okay, this was like two years ago. So, yeah, okay, good.

Megan Onley: so any architect that wants to join, you just apply. It's a really, really long process.

Matt Thompson: Yeah. And, you know, and yeah,

Kendra Shea: But worth it?

Megan Onley: Yeah.

Matt Thompson: Yeah. I mean, I think you can help affect things, you know, but I think, but, but, you know, so they, they have, they have some say in how stuff goes and they help with the regulation and process. They meet monthly. Those are, those are generally public. I'm open to the public meetings.

And then, uh, but, you know, what I [00:44:00] didn't realize in my learning is like, all this can be affected by, um, state, , budgets because there's a cost to run a board. Um, and so when, when we're looking at it right now, with most state governments having some budget, some budget difficulties, , we're recommending like we want to join so that we're not kind of another budget outline item in the cost of, of all of this process and paperwork, um, isn't an additional, it isn't more, it's kind of.

Very similar or the same or very small attitude. So these are all the things we have to work through in rules and regulations. And then, um, we would move through and then the bill would actually kind of be, so the bill would pass rules and regulations and then it goes into effect based on all the rules and regulations that are set up in that

Kendra Shea: On a specific date usually. Um,

Megan Onley: that too is a stakeholder that we have engaged in the past year. We did attend the, um, I believe their last meeting of the year in 24 for the Washington State Board of Architects and They gave us space to present who we are, what we are, why we're here, what we're trying to do. And they said, that's [00:45:00] great.

Have you guys talked to AIA? What did the architects think? And that's where they, they fully were understanding of where we're coming from, but they said, it sounds like you guys need to fully get your community. Talking. And so we're engaging them all. We're engaging everyone from all angles. So.

Kendra Shea: I think that's, we have to, uh, I'll say it again, that's what we learned from the last time, we just, we, we thought we had everyone on board, we, we made some assumptions that just weren't quite right, which is totally fine, um, but I think we as a chapter have learned from that, and it is why we have kind of very slowly made the steps we've made in

Megan Onley: And nationally, we've learned from that. That's why there is the consortium. That's why we're talking to our partners and it's so important.

Matt Thompson: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and I'll, I'll, um, sing praise for past presidents like Kendra and Sarah Larson and Jessica Cody and others before us. Um, there was, there was a lot of work done to bring together all the professional organizations

Kendra Shea: many conversations, [00:46:00] so many

Matt Thompson: Yeah. Uh, to actually kind of get back to, to get to a place of actually being connected.

Um, I, I'm, I'm fielding emails right now about kind of our next lunch in order to

Kendra Shea: Yeah. I'm glad it's still happening.

Matt Thompson: Yeah. We meet quarterly. Um, and that's just to be social. We just have lunch and stay connected

Kendra Shea: faces to names. We didn't know. I had like, like I knew like some NEWH people because they happened to be my friends, but I hadn't talked to an ASID person in years at that point when I had, um, and so I'm going to shout out Hannah Tiffany at this moment because she's the one that went, her, and I think it was, um, ASID president at the time, were like, we should start getting together again.

And I think that is really what got those conversations going and got, like, that was the starting point to where we are now. Like, just, just those lunches, um, I think did a lot for, for getting us all on the same page and being like, you're just a person. We all

Megan Onley: For all humans,

Kendra Shea: we all want the same thing, [00:47:00] actually.

We just are kind of approaching it from a different place. That's

Matt Thompson: yeah, and I think to be clear, I think for those, I mean, there's there's IIDA, ASID, NKBA which is National Kitchen Bath Association. There's IDS, which is interior design society of Seattle. There's RDI, which is a Retail Design Institute. Um, I

Kendra Shea: N E W H, which

Matt Thompson: NEWH

Kendra Shea: and then there is North, this NWSID, which is very super

Matt Thompson: interior design Seattle. Um,

Megan Onley: in Idaho, there's also the IDI, so they have their, yeah, yeah.

Matt Thompson: Yeah. So there's a ton, a ton, a ton of professional organizations all doing different work. Um, and really, to be clear, the national level. So the national consortium has done stakeholdering work at the national level, um, to get built.

They get the model bill language to a place where generally speaking, and I won't speak for every professional organization across the country, but generally speaking, kind of the larger professional organizations are at a, at a place of being like, okay. You can [00:48:00] move. We, we, we don't oppose or work like we are.

We're aware of what you're doing. We're kind of good. Um, and so that's what's been really helpful in our state because we're able to kind of point back up to the national and be like, hey, this is happening nationally. We're we're doing that same work in that same direction and using that that. Base language and that model language that

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm.

Matt Thompson: to kind of framework our bill so that we're not stepping on toes.

We're not trying to take work away. We're really just trying to expand, um, expand access, um, for, for designers that have the three E's, um, that want to practice in a certain way. Um, but we're not taking stuff away from, from other folks. Mm

Kendra Shea: Yeah, exactly. , we pass rules and regs. We got it figured out on a certain date. We start having to, you know, to do our registration. We're paying both fees because we got to keep this economy going. We live in a capitalist world, guys. Not a lot we can do about it. Um, so. Um, I think the things you guys note here, uh, encourage registration to become NCIDQ active if you aren't already, which you should be doing anyway right [00:49:00] now before we even get legislation.

The more numbers we can say, hey, this is how many people are practicing in our state, the better off we'll do, which we'll talk about at the end, how you can do that if you haven't already. Um, so I think, um, Um, yeah, certification active. But then I think we should also talk about deregulation, because as Matt mentioned earlier, that is something that states have faced in the past and are still facing now with legislation.

And I think there's a couple ways they can be deregulated. I have a little bit more understanding of sunsetting laws, only because my family actually lives in New Mexico. And so I was kind of following that on the side and was like. Vote mom, which she does, it's fine. Um, but you know, was making sure that was kind of in her wheelhouse and was aware of what was happening.

Um, so I think, I don't know who wants to touch on this one or start it, but I think we should talk a little bit about sunsetting laws and that, how that affects, um, deregulation and then kind of a more, the other ways deregulation is happening with some of these states.

Megan Onley: I'll let Matt touch on the sun setting, but I think [00:50:00] deregulation in general of professions

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm.

Megan Onley: trying to expand a way to a professional. Occupation without needing to meet requirements, and that's where all occupations that are regulated have a health, safety, welfare impact. And so really proving that you're touching someone's hair.

You're touching someone's body. You're, you're, you're doing something to human beings that. Defines you needing to be regulated. We're impacting the built environment through many ways that affect the health safety welfare. So I think deregulation is a way to get people into industries that have had inhibitors.

And so that's where deregulation comes from. But I know architects in general, they have been fighting to not have deregulation. They. They have their, their occupational regulation and they don't want it to go anywhere for reasons, as we all know.

Kendra Shea: Yeah. Insurance reasons.

Megan Onley: yeah, and we would contribute to that help in that regard.

So, I think that [00:51:00] speaks to a little bit of occupational deregulation on a larger scale. But Matt, do you want to talk about the sun setting?

Matt Thompson: Yeah, really quickly said I don't want to, um, I'm not at all a professional on it, but in

Kendra Shea: fine. Not in this call.

Matt Thompson: really quickly in public policy, a sunset provision or a sunset clause is a measure within a statute or regulation or other laws that provide the law. The opportunity, like the kind of provides a way for the law to to cease to be effective after a specific date, unless further legislative action is taken.

So it just kind of is a way to make people return back to the table, decide that it's still something everybody wants. And then they have to do some legislative action in order to keep it

Kendra Shea: it's like a mechanism to review every couple of years. And so again, Alabama, who is kind of the other state I follow in the, in the last episode as the first state with, , interior design legislation, uh, they have a, they have a regular sunset [00:52:00] committee. And so I think in, it didn't work once, or there was some unconstitutional things, which are all in the last episode, um, but in the end they do, they, they just had it a couple weeks ago, um, and passed with flying colors.

So it's, it's not, sun setting isn't unusual, I just think it's something you have to be prepared for in your state so that you can approach it ready to go.

Matt Thompson: yeah, and we've, you know, luckily for us again, um, we aren't, we aren't doing this work in a vacuum. We are working with our national counterparts, um, our national consortium partner counterparts, uh, Megan, myself, and a handful of others were just in Chicago for our chapter leader, our CLC, which is our chapter leader Council or chapter or conference with a bunch of other chapter leaders from across the country.

And there was an entire workshop day just around advocacy, discussing all of these topics. And so we're constantly partnering and discussing and listening and sharing information across the country to make sure that we're all kind of aware of what's happening and then best practices and listening to what's happening.

Then [00:53:00] things not to maybe not to redo, um, from other, from other states and other actions so that we can kind of be prepared for that. Because again, what we harp on a lot is advocacy doesn't end. So like the bill passage, yeah, really exciting. We'll be at that bill signing and we'll all get a pin right from the, from the governor, hopefully when he signs it. Uh, but, uh, then we, we leave that and we have a little celebration and then we K what's the next action, uh, because advocacy does not end just cause the bill passes. Mm hmm.

Megan Onley: and I think, too, to circle back on, like, what's next if the bill passes

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm.

Megan Onley: I think, our CEUs that we are required to do, we're required to have those through our NCIDQ certification, but from the symposium that Matt's talking about, I was sitting next to Alaska, and I had a conversation about that, and it's that our CEUs have a direct, um, health, safety, welfare credit associated with them, because there are different ones.

They're not all

Kendra Shea: we're already there. So

Megan Onley: we are,

Kendra Shea: in Washington State, for instance, I had the [00:54:00] luckiness of being audited this year. Um, so in Washington State, because we are unregulated, you have to have, what is it, 10 or 5 health safety welfare, um, CEU credits. Each year? So,

Megan Onley: and I think Alabama's was 12 and I think Texas was 12 and so that's where that joint board would identify what those are and

Kendra Shea: And let's like, so side note, guys, we should be doing more HSW because I'll struggle bussed to get some of those at the end there. Um, especially because I have 10, 000 general credits too. That was the worst. I was like, I have so many general.

Megan Onley: Yeah, and I

Kendra Shea: Uh, huh.

Megan Onley: our, our allies and advocates, too, that we do keep up on our health, safety, welfare. It doesn't stop at our NCIDQ. It doesn't stop within our practice. We're continually keeping up with the current codes and,

Kendra Shea: So any rep who wants to offer CEUs make them all health safety welfare. Don't make me search

Megan Onley: yes.

Matt Thompson: And if you are an IIDA member,

Kendra Shea: Mm hmm

Matt Thompson: [00:55:00] go check out IIDA HQ's website. They have the entire university page, like the entire CEU page, which has a ton of different CEUs available on there. Um, so definitely check that out.

Kendra Shea: I'm gonna say it was okay. I would go

Matt Thompson: They're

Kendra Shea: I have, I have other recs. My biggest problem was I went looking and almost none of them were HSW at the time. So I had to go to CIDQ. Yeah, so I had to go to CIDQ and then they have a whole like master list, which was really good. But again, it was still like digging through to find them.

I would love for them to make it a little bit easier. I

Megan Onley: I think that's a big one, too, is AIA and IDCEC can have HSWs associated. They just have to register

Kendra Shea: Stir them both and even like like my IDC DC credits didn't automatically upload to CIDQ So I had to separately get all my so so I think the other thing we need to do is make it easy for us as designers Right? They're like, I'm gonna do the work because I want to stay certified. It's really important to me.

I'm, I, [00:56:00] I clearly believe in this. But it was, I think there will be people that'll look at that and go, Never mind, that's too hard. And so I do think the other thing we have to think about is how do we streamline this process between IDCEC, CIDQ, getting those certificates uploaded, because it was a pain in the butt.

But,

Megan Onley: And then state registration

Kendra Shea: and right. So exactly. So there are, there are definitely those of us who will push through the BS and make sure it happens. But I think if we want to, not everyone is willing to do that. And so that'll be as we kind of move forward and, and really start to get this going, streamline it for all of us.

Megan Onley: What to look forward to

Kendra Shea: exactly, exactly. 


[00:56:37] Future Plans
---




Kendra Shea: so on that note, let's talk a little bit about. What's happening? What kind of the projection is for the future? What are we looking at kind of in the Pacific Northwest in our chapter? And then, you know, especially because you just came back from HQ, do you have some little national, national goals we can talk about?

Megan Onley: Yeah, [00:57:00] I think, um, what Matt and I continue to say is that advocacy never ends and it just changes and evolves what your goal is. And so really pivoting like this year, we, we had a different goal in mind and now we have a goal that we're still pursuing and it's just different and changing and knowing that once it does pass that we will be in a protection way.

We will want to keep our legislation and, um, nationally just seeing what's going on in other states is that We're doing the work just as everyone else is and we're learning from each other too, so we got to get in Oklahoma's ear about what just happened with your guys legislation and how can we piggyback off of that and how can we try to emulate that as best as possible.

So I think, um, projection wise is just learning from our neighbors and, um, expanding our profession to the fullest extent that we, we believe we can do.

Matt Thompson: Yeah, and I think, you're going to see so in Idaho, projections from a, from an advocacy standpoint. Yeah, we've talked about that, but [00:58:00] also I think you're gonna start seeing actually more activity. So in Idaho, they have their capital day coming up on March 6th. They have a wonderful Barkarchitecture event coming

Kendra Shea: that! That's cool!

Matt Thompson: of March.

I think

Megan Onley: May.

Matt Thompson: or is it May? It's in May, um, which is going to be a wonderful event if you're in Idaho in Boise, I Go attend it. It looks, it's gonna be

Kendra Shea: I'm jelly.

Matt Thompson: Um, so you're gonna see a lot of action that way, um,

Kendra Shea: I see Cruise the Lake is

Matt Thompson: Yep. So in, in, in Coeur d'Alene. Yep.

Kendra Shea: I'm not even president and it's back! I'm so mad!

Megan Onley: North Idaho to Southern Idaho, they're, they're hitting

Kendra Shea: Good for them! Oh, I'm

Matt Thompson: the lake is back in support of in support of legislative work and lobbying lobbying work in Coeur d'Alene, which which are Spokane city center will be heavily attending, um, in Washington.

Um, the big one is product runway will be back May 15th. Um, so that's a great advocacy opportunity. So besides the legislative lobbying, yeah, yeah. Task force work. Um, there's all of the o there's all the other public connection, [00:59:00] bringing awareness to, um, and an event work, um, that is really important to draw a connection, um, back to the public and help them understand the, the, the action that's happening, but also support the action financially because it does, it is not, um, free, uh, to do lobbying work, legislative work and other stuff.

And so there is a cost associated to that. And so these events that you'll see coming out over the rest of the year. Um, into 2026, um, really are meant to one, educate, um, to provide outreach and then three to help, um, finance and, and to support, uh, the legislative and the lobbying work that's happening across, um, our chapter.

Megan Onley: And keep our momentum up as, as a collective and get our energy focused and everyone hyped up for when the time comes to send legislator letters. So

Kendra Shea: Yeah, get ready, make a template, do it. I did it for Alaska last time, it wasn't bad.

Matt Thompson: Now, yeah, it's easy. Yeah, we try to make all those kind of act, call the actions as easy as possible. Megan and her team, um, and, [01:00:00] and Katie and May and their team and, and, um, and Ashley and Michael and they're, um, all the advocacy team really are doing a ton of work to try to make some of that easy. Um, so, so always check your email thing.

I would always tell people is check your email, read your email. Don't just check it, read it, um, and then read it again. Um, and listen to our social media posts or when we text you via the text. Okay. The call to action text, um, please actually do the action. Um, cause when Megan and the team start to say, do this thing, it's literally because we need an action done in that moment,

Kendra Shea: As fast as

Matt Thompson: might be on the floor or in a committee talking about something.

Um, and they need to see their phone blowing up or they need their, their staffer to walk over to them and be like, Hey, we just got 50 emails about this topic. I think

Kendra Shea: I don't know if anyone else has been calling phone lines recently, but boy, was I getting a lot of busy signals. I was like, all right, good. So I think we're, we're trying, well, don't think we'll quite get that. That would be a miracle, but that's kind of right the goal. Let's, let's flood and make them have to go.

Okay, staffers be like, we [01:01:00] have 10 billion calls about this thing. I didn't know existed. So yeah, I think that's definitely it. Um, can you share anything from HQ, any projections, any sort of pipeline things that we should all be excited for on the HQ national level? I did, somebody said we were getting some stuff on NPR, so like, hey, that's a good,

Matt Thompson: Yep. There's been commercials in CIDQ has

Kendra Shea: CIDQ, cool.

Megan Onley: Which I love. I love just random people saying, I think I heard something on NPR about you. And I was yeah!

Kendra Shea: Yeah ya did!

Matt Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. So they're doing that for sure. Yeah. And then I don't remember the number, but, um, you know, there's 29, 30 ish states and jurisdictions around the country

Kendra Shea: 31 states and jurisdictions, I

Matt Thompson: Yeah. They have now have some sort of legislation. Um, it's depending on like what you call our state, what you consider a state and jurisdiction.

, have some sort of, of regulation, um, of the industry, um, but there are a handful, maybe two handfuls of states, [01:02:00] currently in some form or fashion, um, working on legislation action, , as far as kind of occupational licensing, um, and, and I should, I should make note, you know, I The consortium is helping in a number of ways from from all of the work and education and stuff like that that they do too.

But there is funding that help that comes from the consortium as well and is helping too. So, um, the action on the ground help us, um, support the, the reason why the consortium should be funding us, uh, too. So,

Kendra Shea: Yeah, you kind of have to show you're doing the work so that they match.

Matt Thompson: yeah.

Megan Onley: And it's exciting to have that energy, even from that symposium, is seeing states adjacent to you, or far away, that are also going through this same process. And you're not alone. And that's where learning from each other and talking to each other, I think that's an important thing through IIDA Headquarters is they're the connector.

We, we meet with them quarterly, um, to talk to each other and just share. We get on a call and everybody can say what they wanna say and you're like, oh my God, I need to learn that. So it's, it's

Kendra Shea: done a really good job like getting everybody and [01:03:00] getting like she even sent me in my research the You're kind of like VP of advocacy stuff for all of you and I was like guys Yes, this is so good because I think I've been around long enough I saw when we were just trying to figure out how to organize and seeing how far even HQ has come in, in supporting us in all of this work.

I think again, is why we're more successful than we were 20 years ago, by the way, I, in my brain, I was like, that was 10 years ago. That was 20 years ago. We went for legislation last. I have no sense of time. Yeah.

Matt Thompson: story and makes me feel old as we were reviewing the bill that was introduced back 20 years ago, and I was like, man, I

Kendra Shea: just reviewed that a little bit

Matt Thompson: about this. Yeah, but at the very bottom of that bill, if you look at it, I think it's the Senate bill. If you look at the bottom, there's a list that lists the speakers that spoke in committee for that bill.

And little student Matt Thompson was listed on

Kendra Shea: Ha ha!

Matt Thompson: time. And I,

Kendra Shea: Yes!

Matt Thompson: so it's really, really kind of weirdly full

Kendra Shea: Coming around.

Matt Thompson: The student that spoke a committee in support of it and now [01:04:00] back as president, I'm kind of helping support the work again. So, um, and then one thing it just popped in my head is, um, we didn't talk about Oregon.

Oregon's not in our chapter. So we're not going to share a ton of detail for them because that's their place. But they

Kendra Shea: they're our buddies.

Matt Thompson: this action. Um, and they, they have, um, they are deep in it. So if you're interested, go to their, go to their website,

Kendra Shea: Roberta will talk your ear off. I love

Matt Thompson: I met her for the 1st

Megan Onley: She's amazing.

Kendra Shea: Roberta's awesome.

Matt Thompson: yeah, but they're doing the hard work too, and I don't want to leave them out from the Pacific Northwest action, because it really is the full Pacific

Kendra Shea: Yeah, it is. I was there, um, for their Excellence Awards and we were, we were talking, um, about it and, and Roberta talked and, and so she and I touched base. And so it, it really is, even though they are a different chapter, it really is the Pacific Northwest and Alaska that is, we're, we're really making that movement right now.

And so I'm

Megan Onley: And I

Kendra Shea: this pocket pops off soon.

Megan Onley: Yeah, and finding those inspiring folks, like Roberta, she's a household name, she's been doing this legislative work for a long [01:05:00] time, and Dana Nunn, and we're also very fortunate to have Stacey Crumbaker from Malum Architects, she's an international IIDA president elect, and she's been doing advocacy work and been in a lot of the organizations that

Kendra Shea: was my VP of advocacy when I was a student. We were both president. So I was student president, she was president of the chapter at the same time. So,

Megan Onley: yes, so

Kendra Shea: is a staple in our advocacy work. And, you know, she, she, in my mind, wrote Be an Advocate. Like, that whole program is because she gave it to us.

Megan Onley: yeah, so

Kendra Shea: know.

Matt Thompson: she's also currently president elect for the International Board, so um, she'll be stepping up for the International

Kendra Shea: Which makes so much sense.

Megan Onley: Yeah,

Matt Thompson: she'll be the

Megan Onley: to have her.

Matt Thompson: She'll be the first international board president that is, um, kind of like its specialty is advocacy. So that also shows you, um, from the national board standpoint, all the way down to the state chapter board standpoint, how important advocacy right now is in the profession and across the association.

So, um, you know, if you're always [01:06:00] kind of curious how IIDA actually supporting the action, you can see it kind of from bottom to top that it really is kind of within the DNA of the association.

Kendra Shea: It really is, I think. I, I do wonder, so, you know, you'll go in the history and you'll listen to my history, so AID and, NSID combined to make ASID, and part of their split originally, because they were all AID, and then they split, the New York chapter split, and then they went back together, was things like decorator versus designer, some sort of legislation in that sense, so, As an IIDA nerd, I should know more about their history on this side, but I do, I should maybe addend later a different episode or maybe do a

Matt Thompson: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Kendra Shea: Deep Dive on, like, because a bunch of things combined to create IIDA and I'd be curious if it was some of the same things that like ASID in, whenever they formed, I can't remember now, kind of was really important.

I'll be Yeah, So I'd have to follow that.

Matt Thompson: is celebrating their 50th anniversary this

Kendra Shea: hmm. [01:07:00] This, yeah.

Matt Thompson: IIDA is 30 years old, or just over 30

Kendra Shea: 30 years

Matt Thompson: the association. Um, and then, uh, the Northern Pacific chapter is 30

yeah, we are one of the original, not the original, but we are one of the early, um, movements into the chapter, into the association.

Kendra Shea: So, I definitely

Megan Onley: designer as a role has been around for way longer

Kendra Shea: Yeah,

Megan Onley: organizations,

Kendra Shea: yeah. And I absolutely go into that whole kind of history in the previous episode before this one, where we really talk about Interior the magazine, how that kind of led into the associations and then kind of, I follow, , Alabama and their journey mostly in that one, just because if I followed every state it would be 5, 000 years of a

Megan Onley: they're all different.

Kendra Shea: Exactly, so I sticked, exactly, so I stick to, to Alabama as the first and then I kind of follow our history as the Pacific Northwest to kind of attach to this episode. So again, I may update in the future if I can get more info and talk to more states as we go. [01:08:00] 


[01:08:03] Action Items
---

Kendra Shea: I think before we wrap up though, uh, action items.

What can listeners do, right here, right now, um, to support? And then as we move forward, because I did, I do think Matt kind of hinted at our, our little text message stuff here, um, what we can do once you are getting those text messages. So first, what can you do? What can we text? Who do we, who do we get a hold of to know what is happening?

Megan Onley: Yeah, I think check out our website. IIDA NPC the advocacy tab. We have state breakouts that you'll see coming soon on there to see what is going on in each state specifically. But I think a big call to action to our interior designers is. Being able to speak eloquently about this and how do you do so?

And how do you do that? Because it doesn't need to come from just me, Matt and Kendra. Like it needs to come from all of us and we need to be able to have the tools to do that. And I think our website and CIDQ's HSW page has a thousand videos [01:09:00] and that's how you get better about this is speaking to people.

And we're speaking to students at the Bellevue College and at WSU and at U of I and really. Getting our interior designers before they are in industry, and so seeing how this impact will, will get to you once you are here, once you have established, um, and so I think that's the biggest call to action is talk about it, talk about it with your firm, talk about, let's, let's start normalizing this conversation that this isn't coming from, from nowhere, nationally, there's a movement around this, and We just need to have the tools at our ready to be able to convey to our architecture coworkers, what this is and how this will impact them and how this will impact us and how this will create a standardization and baseline for what it is to be a commercial interior designer.

And, um, that was a lot, but I think that's my call to action.

Kendra Shea: It's a good call to action!

Matt Thompson: that's a good, that's a, there's a few things in there, you know, and, and, and what I would say is, you know, and I'll, I'll even go a little bit broader or a [01:10:00] little bit bigger than that is, um, you know, you may not want to be in politics. You may not feel comfortable talking to a legislature.

You may not be comfortable talking to your, um, firm leader about this topic. We hope you would be, and we encourage you to get comfortable, but that may not be who you are and that's okay. Um, But really at the basis of this is be engaged and being engaged can start by being the chair of graphics for a chapter like, um, IIDA Northern Pacific chapter,

Kendra Shea: Do you need a graphics chair, guys?

Matt Thompson: we need all sorts of things. Um, we're actually, yeah, so I'll do a little

Kendra Shea: yes, also.

Matt Thompson: we're doing board nominations right now. If you could see yourself being a board member, um, board nominations are open. We have a ton of chair positions open. Um, but IIDA, ASID are all volunteer organizations and every little thing we do across the chapter is advocacy.

It's rooted in advocacy this year. We really wanted to focus in my board term on three things. Education, advocacy and outreach. [01:11:00] And advocacy really is rooted in making sure we're providing professional development, um, opportunities for our mid level and junior designers to grow in their profession and grow in their education, um, by providing opportunities for networking and business development at, um, events and, um, coffee hours and meet and greets and connecting with professionals.

Um, and so even if it's not, you want to be an advocacy action, um, come support your professional organization, whether that's ASID or IIDA. Obviously we'd love IIDA, um, but, but support your professional organization because we are the ones doing the work and there are others, but there, this, we're doing the work every day, um, to build our profession into a profession, um, and continue that work.

And we need you all, um, out there in the world to kind of raise your hand and get involved. So.

Kendra Shea: Direct action isn't always the necessary action. We need, right, the same way any famous person or any big A architect or big D designer needs all of us to make sure the drawings get done [01:12:00] and all the little things happen. We need all of you, even if all you want to do is graphics for something else.

Cool. We need graphics. We always need graphics

Megan Onley: Because we need people to read that email, or read that social media post, so it needs to look good.

Kendra Shea: Exactly. Yeah. Um, so I think Call to action, if you haven't done it already, what is the number? What's the text number? Why don't I know this by heart? Okay. So

Megan Onley: know that.

Kendra Shea: yeah, I was like, you should, uh, so I think the, the, the tangible call to action you can do, uh, is text, is it text interior design to say it again, Megan?

Megan Onley: 52886.

Kendra Shea: 52886. They'll ask you a couple of questions, which is mostly like, what's your zip code? Just so we know where

Megan Onley: fill all of it out.

Has to do with, um, grant applications, knowledge of what we're doing. They look at that number and see statistically how many people from Washington state are texting that number. Um, there's so many ways about that. That call to action will be active [01:13:00] when we are pursuing our bill on the floor.

That is when that number is going to hit live. So we haven't utilized that yet because we're still stakeholdering. So I think yeah. Hopefully we'll come back to you next year and we'll do another part, part

Kendra Shea: do, we'll do part three and we'll catch up, see what's happening, see what's

Megan Onley: we'll say, you don't need to text that number, you need to call your legislator.

Kendra Shea: Exactly. We'll be at the next step of call to action. But I think it proves that like, it's literally, I haven't ever been bothered by it. So. I'm, it literally will not bother you, you will not be getting spam, because the moment I sign up for anything else with my phone number they're like, get 10 percent off, and I'm like, oh my god, leave me alone.

Megan Onley: to spam you in

Kendra Shea: We, exactly, but we're spamming you in the right way, in particular ways, not all the time for no reason. Um, so it is totally worth signing up, it's super easy, and then as Matt said earlier, you read your emails, uh, that's really where we'll give you that information.

Megan Onley: and we have feelers going out through CIDQ, through their holders, through IIDA [01:14:00] membership, through ASID membership. So we're trying to reach interior designers at large through many different avenues, because we know some are not affiliated with any of these organizations. So, educating our, our fellow interior designers too, and getting the word out.

Kendra Shea: That's great. Uh, as always, all information will be in the show notes. Uh, if you have questions and you're like, what are they talking about? Don't worry. It will be in the show notes. And if you can't find it in the show notes, someone just email me, I'll probably find it. Um, so with that, I just want to say both for coming on.

Any other last words, anything else you want to say before we sign off?

Matt Thompson: I'll say, I can't wait to see all of you listeners at an upcoming event. Um, and thank you very much, Kendra, for having us on

Kendra Shea: Yeah, thank you.

Megan Onley: thank you, Kendra. It's, this is such an exciting time and momentum and advocacy and for you to give us space to talk about it is really exciting.

Kendra Shea: Yeah, I, I've been like hinting at it for years on this podcast. It has just been me being like, and legislation, and I'll tell you more, and like not getting there.

Megan Onley: You got Matt and I.

Kendra Shea: [01:15:00] Yeah, and, and it's funny. I started doing the research for the last episode, and I still feel like, I was like, I need another like month. So it's gonna be not quite what I wanted.

I'm an overachiever in that way. So at first I was like, oh god, what am I gonna do? And I was like, you know what? I'll keep it short and sweet. We can always add more, and I might just make this a series as I keep going. Because it is, it is, It is so complicated, and it is so nuanced, and each, each state is its own weird, funky journey of what is happening and why.

Um, so, yeah. But, thank you guys, this has been fun. Ugh, I miss IIDA. I mean, not enough to be on

Megan Onley: gonna be at an event, aren't

Kendra Shea: I am gonna be in an event. I literally, I'm, I'm chairing ZLF, it's fine, I'm not going anywhere.

Matt Thompson: can't see listeners, they can't see her. She has an IIDA

Kendra Shea: I'm wearing my IIDA hoodie. I'm branded today. Look, it's comfy.

Megan Onley: Our IIDA uniform, she's ready to go.

Kendra Shea: I'm ready to go. I know. I couldn't help myself.

I was like, oh, I'll chair ZLF.

Matt Thompson: Good for you. Thank you for doing it.

Kendra Shea: I said it to someone. [01:16:00] I was like, I can do that in my sleep. I've been doing it for so long. Like it's, it's not hard, so.

Megan Onley: where I told

Matt Thompson: We're going to be inviting legislators this year. So

nice. Good job. Um, and then, um, for the audience, um, Z, ZLF will be happening in all three of our city centers on the exact same day this year, which is the first time that that

Kendra Shea: We, we worked really, we

Matt Thompson: in a long time. It's happened.

Kendra Shea: started that momentum. I think again, like my elect president year, we're like, we're going to do this. And then, so we've been slowly getting us back. Uh, so

Megan Onley: It's exciting because that, I will say, is a great space to do your elevator pitch to a random, to no one that will judge you, and just trying it out, and then it'll change the next time, and you'll build, and you'll get a weird question, and you can email the advocacy email, and we can help you in response.

Kendra Shea: and ZLF is such a public facing event because we, the way we'll be like, people will show up and be like, Oh, I just wanted materials. And then they'll start being like, Oh, what do you mean? This is like samples. What do you mean? You're interior designers. And you kind of just get to have that conversation with people and they're like, [01:17:00] Oh, that's so cool.

And it becomes. Yeah, it's very casual, but at the same time you can educate people without being like, do you know we don't have regulation and get all up in their face, you know, because I think that does freak people out in a lot of

Megan Onley: it does, and they're like, what are you talking about? What's occupational regulation? Because it's not something that everyone talks about. So, normalizing the conversation

Kendra Shea: Normalize occupancy regulation,

Megan Onley: Yeah.

Matt Thompson: exactly.

Kendra Shea: That's going to be the new t shirt.

Megan Onley: Yeah.

Kendra Shea: The triple E's and normalize regulatory occupation. 


[01:17:33] Outro
---




Kendra Shea: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Deep Dive is produced, hosted, and edited by me, Kendra Shea. The podcast is also produced by Simon Shea Graphics and Cover Art by Tano design Music is by Qreepz. You can email us at Design Over Drinks pod@gmail.com. You can support us on Patreon and follow us on most social media at Design Over Drinks Pod all one word and Blue Sky at Design Overdrinks [01:18:00] find us wherever you get your podcasts. 


[01:18:05] Tag
---

Kendra Shea: History, history, history, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'll say a lot. It'll be really interesting. Send everyone back to their episode, and then I'm going to sum it up here.