Design Over Drinks
Design Over Drinks is an interview style podcast aiming to be a forum for emerging designers to talk about our philosophies, trends, experiences, successes, failures, diversity, advocacy, predictions, and everything in between. Why over drinks? Because designers often have a beverage in hand. Whether its a hot coffee or chai to start the day, or a glass of wine with coworkers to end it. A kombucha, or bubble tea, even that trusty bottle of water as we go from meeting to emails, to 30 minutes of actual work. We always have a hand for a drink. I started this podcast when Covid-19 hit in 2020. I spent a lot of time listening to the giants of design talk about what they predicted the future to be like, and how our profession will adapt as our world changes. Although that is important, I felt disconnected from the designer who is doing the production work, the designer who had to adapt because their schooling was like no others. I wanted to talk to the designer who will be the potential "giant" of the future. I like being a designer, but I love to talk about it more. My younger self hoped to someday be an art curator and a philosopher. In a way this is how I still hope to do just that. Become a patron at Patreon.com/DesignOverDrinksPod and follow us on Instagram @designoverdrinkspod as we connect with designers and down our drinks along the way.
Design Over Drinks
Interior Design Legislation Part 1: History & Background
This is our first Deep Dive Episode! One of the most important things happening in our profession right now is the push for legislation across the country for Interior Design. This is not been a short, or easy journey and I hope to begin to tell those stories here. My hope is that this episode along with part 2, will be primer for those trying to understand the full picture. Enjoy!
Timestamps:
Welcome: 00:09
Disclaimer: 00:52
Definition of Interior Design: 01:24
Design/ Legislative History 1900-1975: 4:53
First Jurisdiction with Legislation: 8:59
Legislation Types: 09:47
Legislation History 1975-2010: 10:54
Legislation History 2010-2024: 16:01
Legislative History of Washington and Idaho: 19:48
The Future Of Interior Design Legislation: 28:03
Show Notes:
Full Bibliography and show notes can be found on our website.
Design Over Drinks is Hosted, and Edited by Kendra Shea
Produced by Kendra Shea and Simon Shea
Season 3 Graphics and Cover Art by Tano Design
Season 3 Music is by Qreepz
Email: DesignOverDrinksPod@gmail.com
Socials/ Patreon: @DesignOverDrinksPod
BlueSky: @DesignOverDrinks
Legislative History
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[00:00:00]
[00:00:09] Welcome
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Kendra Shea: Welcome to Deep Dive, where we explore one topic in depth that affects the profession of interior design. I'm your host, Kendra Shea, and for our first in depth topic, we are talking about legislation for interior design.
Here's a plan for how these will go. In these episodes, I'm going to take a closer look at a specific topic, in two parts.
First will be an oral essay of sorts. We'll review the history of each topic. I'm kind of thinking like a book report of all the info I can gather. In part two, a separate episode, I'll talk with folks who are directly involved or impacted by the topic.
Tune in to the second part to find out more.
[00:00:52] Disclaimer
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Kendra Shea: Quick disclaimer before we start. This is nowhere the most comprehensive breakdown. [00:01:00] There's a lot of missing information that I have not yet discovered in the short amount of time I gave myself to get this part done.
All the sources I used for this episode will be linked in the show notes. All opinions are my own and and don't represent those of anyone else.
Also, listeners, if you have info that I have missed in this episode please reach out to designoverdrinkspod at gmail. com with your corrections.
[00:01:24] Definition of Interior Design
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Kendra Shea: Before we get going, I want to first define what the profession of interior design is. I want to make it clear what we do is different from architecture, but at the same time, there's a lot of overlap. So, from the CIDQ website, the abbreviated definition is, interior design encompasses the analysis, planning, design, documentation, and management of interior non structural, non seismic construction and alteration projects in compliance with applicable building design and construction, fire, life safety, [00:02:00] and energy codes, standards, regulations, and guidelines for the purpose of obtaining a building permit as allowed by law.
Qualified means of education, experience, and examination, interior designers have a moral and ethical responsibility to protect consumers and occupants through the design of code compliant, accessible, and inclusive interior environments that address well being while considering the complex physical, mental, and emotional needs of people.
Alright, , you might be like, whoa, I had no idea interior design was all that. And you're not alone. The public perception that we are just bored women with good taste who pick pillows and paint is not it at all. Even residential designers have schooling and formal training to make sure your home is safe and functional.
Many interior designers, though, work in commercial design. Your kid's school, the grocery store, your office, the community center, the fire station, Almost any space you are in have all been designed by an [00:03:00] interior designer as part of a team that includes architects, engineers, and contractors, to name a few.
All right. Why is this important? One of the reasons I think we need legislation for interior design. A few reasons, but the major ones for me, I'll say here. The first being that I believe in regulation. Look at the airline industry if you want to see what deregulation does.
It is an equity issue. 75 percent of the profession are women, and according to ASID, 82. 4 percent of their members are small businesses. Without recognition as a profession, there are inherent barriers for being promoted within a firm or having rights if your profession does not exist per the law. I work for myself, for example, and when I started my own business, , I found I'm not eligible for tax benefits as an architecture firm would have because what I do is not a recognized profession.
There is also a misunderstanding as to what the profession is.
Listen to almost any other episode of Design Over Drinks, and the public perception [00:04:00] is that interior design is a luxury and mostly residential, or gets confused with decorating, and people think it doesn't impact public health.
So why would you need to regulate that?
But actually, what many may think of as work done by an architect is actually the work of a qualified commercial interior designer who understands the health, safety, and welfare, and the importance of public safety in the built environment. Part of changing the messaging to better understand the reality of being a commercial interior designer is having the support of our governing bodies.
And lastly, respect for what we do in architecture firms. In the same vein as above, where the public thinks what we do falls under architecture only, architects don't always understand we are trained in many of the same disciplines as they are, but might have a different approach that still protects the health, safety, and welfare of the public.
[00:04:53] Design/ Legislative History 1900-1975
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Kendra Shea: Okay, so how [00:05:00] did we get here? Because interior design did start in the home as the art of decoration, and probably for the wealthy. The term interior decoration was first documented being used in America in 1904. Also, this year, the New York School of Applied Fine Arts, now the Parsons School, offered their first courses in interior decoration.
The first commissioned design was by Elsie DeWolf in 1905, and she published her book, The First About Interior Design, The House in Good Taste, in 1913. A decade later, in 1923, Dorothy Draper established her design firm, Architectural Clearing House, and became the first documented decorator to specialize in commercial interiors.
In 1930, the term interior designer was coined by a magazine called Interior Design and Decoration. Other magazines took up the term, including one called Interiors, which insisted on only using the term interior [00:06:00] designer. They published more commercial than residential work.
Note also at this time, schools were recognizing the work of designers as well as architects and engineers.
The first professional organization, the American Institute of Interior Decorators, AIID, was formed in 1931 when a group met at a furniture show who were interested in creating a national professional organization. In 1936, the name was changed to the American Institute of Decorators, AID. Interior Design and Decoration Magazine stopped being printed between 1943 and 1952.
When it resumed publication, it became Interior Design Magazine, which is now the most respected design magazine in the U. S., if not the world. In my hunt for information on the next part, I came across the editor of the time, Olga Griffith. Ooh, I hope I said that right. An entire episode in herself, who was the first step towards where we are today. Metropolis [00:07:00] Magazine did an excellent series on her in 2017, and it's worth a read if you want to know more.
The second professional association was formed in 1957, called the National Society for Interior Designers, NSID. This was a splinter group of the New York chapter of the AID. Inevitably, over time, as the profession grew, there were divisive issues which led to why NSID splintered off. these were interior designer instead of decorator in the name, and educating the public of the meaning. Professional membership was not just for interiors, but all qualified practitioners, like architects, industrial designers, scenic designers, educators, lighting engineers, to name a few. And gaining licensing as a goal of the organization.
The New York chapter of AID changed names officially on July 26, 1957. This caused a rift, but led to a transcription of a speech published in Interiors in 1958, where a prominent member of AID, Melanie Cain, called for changes to [00:08:00] align more with NSID.
In 1961, AID changed its name to American Institute of Interior Designers, but kept the AID acronym. In 1963, National Office Furnishings Association created a professional group for interior designers, NOFA-d, and the Interior Design Education Council, IDEC, was formed. By 1969, NOFA-d was now NOPA-d, which I think stands for National Office Products Alliance, but not sure.
And out of that group came the Institute of Business Designers, IBI. In 1970, Foundation for Interior Design Education Research, FIDR, was also established. In 1974, the National Council for Interior Design Qualification, NCIDQ, our testing body as interior designers, was incorporated as a non for profit.
In 1975, AID and NSID combined to become the American Society for Interior Designers. Thus healing the rift that it was caused when they split in 1957.
[00:08:59] First Jusdiction with Legislation
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[00:09:00]
Kendra Shea: Alright, that brief history was kind of long, but I also did my best to keep it short. Now we are through the context, which is important to everything, let's get going on the topic of legislation for interior design.
Backing it up a bit, I've read that in 1970 is when the legislative efforts began, but not much else. I've been working on finding out more on what the catalyst was, but so far I haven't found it. But here's what I've learned. Did you know the first interior design legislation was not a state, but a territory?
Would you have guessed Puerto Rico? If you did, well, you win nothing! But, you knew more than me when I started looking into the road of legislation we are on. In 1973, Puerto Rico passed a Title Law
[00:09:47] Legislation Types
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Kendra Shea: So what's a title law you ask? Okay, time to get technical. A Title Act or Title Law protects certain titles such as [00:10:00] Registered Interior Designer RID or Certified Interior Designer CID.
This does not define interior design practice and does not allow for stamp and seal privileges of interior construction documents. So, what does legally define the scope and practice of an RID or a CID? That is a Practice Act. It will also outline registration requirements and establish penalties for violations.
The other major difference between the two is that with a Title Act, registration is on a volunteer basis, whereas with a Practice Act, it is mandatory.
Then, the next step is stamp and seal privileges. This is not something that is its own law. It is in conjunction with a Practice Act, usually, or Title Act, and allows the additional ability to sign and seal code impacted work in order to be submitted for a construction permit. This allows RIDs the ability to work independently of an architect.
[00:10:54] Legislation History 1975-2010
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Kendra Shea: [00:11:00] Okay, back to our history. In 1975, a few years after Puerto Rico passed their Title Act, the American Society of Interior Designers, the longest running modern professional organization, was formed by AID and SID. Like I said earlier, the long running rift from their initial split fully mended with the combining of the two.
Puerto Rico's title law was amended in 1976. I do not know the details, but would speculate it was to better define the scope of work.
The next big milestone is Alabama as the first state with legislation. They introduced their own Title Act in 1982, and it passed. Interior design was not really a defined profession at this point, but was gaining recognition. The architects were not really paying attention anyway, so the time was right.
What I could find out about the folks in Alabama was little, but here's what I do know. It was a group of NCIDQ certified designers, all part of ASID, who wrote the bill language themselves.
By 1984, American Institute of [00:12:00] Architects, AIA's Licensing Law Task Force, is clear that they are opposed to any form of interior design legislation and registration.
I could do a whole deep dive on each state and their journey, and maybe that's how I'll update this series in the future. Anyone listening from any of these states who adopted legislation early on, please reach out. I'm always seeking more stories of how we got to today.
Over the next 10 years, states continued to gain legislation, despite AIA's outright opposition at the time. There's a whole bunch of history that could be a whole episode in itself on IIDA and its foundation. But for now, we could note that in 1994, the International Interior Design Association, IIDA, was formed by the combination of IBD, ISID, CFID, and with the goal to represent interior designers worldwide.
By 1996, 18 more states and DC have enacted some sort of legislation for interior design. 15 of the 18 states are [00:13:00] Title Acts, and in Louisiana and Florida, both start with a Title Act and later also pass Practice Acts.
From 1997 to 2000, not a lot of progress was made. In 2000, NCARB, the National Council of Architectural Registration Board, voted to oppose any form of interior design licensing.
For now, we'll head back to Alabama., finding that their legislation was mostly symbolic, begin efforts to pass a Practice Act.
In 2001, Alabama passed their Interior Design Consumer Protection Act. The state also established the Alabama Board of Registration for Interior Designers. There was intense opposition, though, not just architects but other interior designers and retailers who employed designers to assist customers with material, fixtures, and furnishing. They believed that the law unfairly restricted their ability to sell their services and merchandise.
In 2003, AIA voted to maintain their current policy outright opposing Practice Acts and [00:14:00] neutral on pure Title Acts. Three more states have passed title laws by this time.
In 2004, a lawsuit was filed against the Alabama's Practice Act. It claimed that the law restricted the interior decorator's ability to select decorative accessories and was deemed unconstitutional by the Jefferson County Circuit Lower court in 2005 as a restriction of trade. Alabama then reverted back to the 1982 law for the time being.
The Alabama Board of Registration for Interior Designers appealed. A motion to continue the board in their condition at the time was approved to keep disruption to a minimum. The state's Sunset Committee, an agency who reviews legislation and industry and then makes a recommendation.
Proposed a revision to the law, . This was developed to allow a broader range of service for non registered interior designers, which did pass in 2007. That same year, the lawsuit against the original legislation worked its way up to the Supreme Court, and they upheld the lower court's ruling.
[00:15:00]
In 2006, FIDR was then renamed the Council for Interior Design Qualification, CIDQ.
By the end of 2010, we were up to 26 states and territories with some sort of interior design legislation. Alabama passed a revised Practice Act which protected the term Registered Interior Designer, RID. They did have some opposition from architects and some non NCIDQ certified designers who felt it diminished their professional standing.
In the end, it passed during the 2010 legislative session and is still current today. This law was a compromise between RIDs and architects, allowing permitting privileges, but with a set area and occupancy type limitations of 5, 000 square feet and non assembly occupancies for RIDs. This law led to changes in the NCIDQ exam and moved its focus towards health, safety, and welfare.
Kendra Shea: Alabama faces sunset reviews every four years. At the time of this recording, the current law went under a sunset review just a few weeks [00:16:00] ago and has passed with no issues.
[00:16:01] Legislation History 2010-2024
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Kendra Shea: As time continues on, a couple more states continue to gain legislation. Massachusetts passes a bill for interior designers to bid on state projects in 2013. And in 2016, Utah passes their Commercial Interior Design Certification. By 2017, we were up to 28 states and territories with some sort of legislation.
During this time, many states with current legislation are combating deregulation, including Virginia, Illinois, New Jersey, Florida, and Iowa. New Mexico retains their law and board during their sunset review, and Ohio defeats a sales tax on service proposal.
2021 is really when the national shift we are seeing today began.
Big things happened. So in June of that year, NCARB sunsets their long standing resolution to oppose interior design regulation. That's a big deal. [00:17:00] Instead, they support multidisciplinary boards that regulate architecture and design. In December, CIDQ and NCARB released their joint report.
I reviewed the full document, and if you are a chart junkie, this is the report for you. It's a super detailed look at how the practice and education of the two disciplines overlap. Pages and pages of really interesting data, all in color coded charts. The findings summary said it best. While similar in practice and required knowledge, architecture and interior design are unique and distinct disciplines that both have an important role in protecting the health, safety, and welfare of the public within the built environment.
The other major shift is AIA National changes their stance, eliminating their outright opposition to interior design legislation. This means that local jurisdictions are not being compelled by their national group to oppose.
We added another state this year to the count as well. North Carolina passes a Title Act with [00:18:00] permitting privileges. The North Carolina General Assembly passed it, and the bill was developed in collaboration with the Board of Architects and unopposed by the state's AIA chapter. then in 2022, both Wisconsin and Illinois expand their Title Acts to include permitting privileges.
It is super important to note that in both of these states, interior designers worked in collaboration with a local component of AIA and were unopposed.
In January 2023, the Interorganizational Council on Regulation, ICOR, which is a group made up of folks from different regulatory associations for architecture, engineering, landscape architecture, and interior design. They convened their practice overlap task force, which was brought together to study issues of practice overlap and provide guidance to regulatory boards.
Iowa also expanded their Title Act to include permitting privileges in April of 2023, and like Wisconsin and Illinois in the previous year, did so in collaboration with their local AIA and were [00:19:00] unopposed.
In May, ICOR released a signed statement supporting the continued licensure and regulation of all the design professions, backing the idea that interior design professionals have an impact on our health, safety, and welfare in the built environment, and therefore should be considered and regulated the same as other disciplines.
In March of 2024, Nebraska became the 29th state and 31st U. S. jurisdiction with legislation for interior design. That's huge! Oklahoma gains a commercial Practice Act and Pennsylvania, working with the local AIA again, amends the architect's licensure law of their state to provide for certification of qualified interior designers.
Okay, so, what's up for 2025? We'll get back to that.
[00:19:48] Legislative History of Washington, and Idaho
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Kendra Shea: For now, we're going to fly over an illustrated imaginary U. S. map, while a calendar, overlaid, transparent on that map, quickly moves backwards, pages ripping off slowly, then more rapidly, as we pan [00:20:00] all the way over to the left and north to Washington State. Our overlay calendar slows and stops in February, 2005, and the star in the Capitol Olympia winks.
Here, like in many states during the early 2000s, a coalition has been formed, the Interior Designers Coalition of Washington, IDCW, to fundraise and centralize the effort. Companion bills SB 5754 in the Senate and HB 1878 in the House were introduced during the 2005 regular session.
The bill language was a Title Act protecting the use of a Registered Interior Designer. Someone could qualify by meeting a few criteria. First, holding their NCIDQ, and second, six years of combined work experience and formal education from an accredited program. The bill outlined curriculum requirements to encompass, and I quote, manual and computer aided design, two and three dimensional design, and composition fundamentals, color [00:21:00] theory, building systems, material and finishes and specifications, codes and ordinances, presentation skills and business practices, and management.
Hours of experience must be distributed among six competency areas. Programming, schematic design, design development, contract documents, contract administration, and professional practice.
There was a requirement for registered designers to do hours of CEUs over a certain amount of time. Penalties for violation were a cease and desist, being guilty of a misdemeanor, and subject to civil penalty of no more than 5, 000 for each offense. It did not prevent the use of the term interior designer.
SB 5754 was read on February 4th and referred to the Senate's Labor Commerce, Research and Development. HB 1878 was first heard on February 9th and referred to the House Committee on Commerce and Labor. A public hearing was held on February 16th. In that hearing, members of IDCW testified in support.[00:22:00]
Formal opposition were from AIA Washington and the Architects and Engineers Legislative Council. The opposition argued that the public health and welfare concerns articulated in the bill did not need to be regulated and that regulation would undermine FIDER's accreditation of Washington State University's program, which was the only accredited one at the time, because it did not name FIDER, now CIDQ, in the bill.
They also did not like the grandfathering laws, which provided no supervision and lack of requirement to take the exam for those who are grandfathered in. They also stated, and I quote, an attempt to expand the scope of practice beyond the International Building Code standard.
There was also a failure to get their residential designers on board at the time. Although noted non registered designers could use Interior Designer, they felt their ability to practice was being challenged. A public hearing was held February 22nd for the Labor, Commerce, Research, and Development Senate [00:23:00] Committee, but was not heard.
On March 1st, an executive session of the House was scheduled, but no action was taken that day. The next morning, the majority passed the act with a substitute bill that basically took out the enforcement portion. The rules for verifying completion of CEU hours, fees, and renewal frequency took those out of the bill and made them part of the Uniform Business Professions Act, which is there to provide , and I quote again, Uniform Disciplinary Act with standardized procedures for the regulation of businesses and professions and the enforcement of laws.
Unfortunately, the bill was not passed in the Minority House and was then sent to the Rules Committee for a second reading. It was made eligible on March 7th to be placed on second reading and reintroduced by resolution in the 2006 Regular Session on January 9th, but retained its present status.
I was not around for this, but I've heard stories through the grapevine. In reading the proposed legislation, I don't necessarily think that all of the architects [00:24:00] critiques of the bill were wrong, but their attitude and blatant disregard for interior design affecting the health, safety, and welfare of the public were unbacked and clearly biased.
You have to remember this was still the time when NCARB and AIA were not supporting legislation on a national level. Things quieted down for a long time after that.
Not in a nothing has happened kind of way, more in a behind the scenes kind of way. In 2013 14, IDCW was still active and put on their last product runway show. A fundraiser event where firms and manufacturers are paired up to create avant garde garments based on a theme. Now here's where I come in, unknowingly starting my journey on this path I am today.
At the time I was lucky enough to end up on a team as a student. The IIDA NPC slash zero landfill team. And if you know anything about me, that absolutely tracks. For the next eight years, our chapter worked hard to advocate for commercial [00:25:00] interior designers. The Be an Advocate series started by then VP of Advocacy absolutely changed the way we talk about what we do and how important it is to the built environment and how people understand that importance.
For me, it felt like for a long time, there was a pause in the push to become an NCIDQ certified designer. My previous experience in school, especially in New York in the late aughts, the importance of being certified was passed off as not necessary and only for the overachievers. The architects who taught us technical skills said it was not needed for what we do, and the interior designers, who only worked in residential design, Kind of said the same thing.
Coming to Seattle and spending time with commercial interior designers, I realized how important being NCIDQ certified was. Finally, in 2020, I get my certification and in 2021 become IIDA NPC's chapter president elect. This is important because I get to support the work [00:26:00] directly.
A few things happened during this time. Nationally, NCARB and AIA are changing their stances on legislation. Locally, we start meeting with other professional interior design groups. There are a bunch in our region, and they don't seem to connect very often, if at all. We began with lunches, to put faces to names, and went from there. , one of the mistakes we made back in 2005 , was not including all parts of the practice, including residential designers in our work towards legislation.
In an effort to not make the same mistakes, we continue to meet with our local design organizations ASID, NKBA, IDS, NEWH, NWSID, RDI, and all the others to let them know we plan to go for new legislation and want their input. Making it clear, we don't aim to change anything that a residential interior designer can currently do, or that any designer can currently do, per Washington law, but instead expand what a commercial interior designer [00:27:00] cannot do.
At the same time, IIDA NPC's Idaho City Center members had been in conversation with ASID Intermountain Chapter, whose territory includes Idaho and Utah. Utah has a Commercial Interior Design Certification Act permitting privileges, and they wanted to support Idaho in pursuing legislation as well.
And just so it's clear, IIDA Northern Pacific Chapter is Washington, Idaho, and Alaska. Those are the states, it also has Canadian provinces, but we're just talking about states for today. ASID has separate chapters for each of those states, and NPC is working with each towards legislation.
Kendra Shea: As of 2024, we are collaborating through consortiums, which we will talk about more in our next episode.
So for now, we'll go back to 2023, it's the end of my president year, we brought back product runway. That was a full circle moment for me.
we raised almost 20, 000, a huge accomplishment as we began to build momentum again. [00:28:00]
[00:28:03] The Future of Interior Design Legislation
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Kendra Shea: so what's up for 2025 and beyond? Well, listen next week when I talk to IIDA NPC current president Matt Thompson, who is Strategic Relationship Executive for Miller Knoll here in Seattle, and NPC VP of Advocacy for Washington, Senior Interior Designer at Integris in Spokane, Megan Onley. about what the current efforts are and what you can do to support it.
Okay, phew, that was a lot. I did not give myself enough time for this history recap to be honest, so there may be updates to this episode in the future.
I want to thank Marcy Merola, Senior Director of Advocacy at IIDA HQ, for her help with background and timeline information. I'd also like to thank IIDA Alabama Chapter Advocacy Team, especially Jim Griffo, I hope I'm saying his name right, for answering my questions about, Alabama and its journey.
Kendra Shea: I also just want to shout out all the hard work, , the advocacy teams [00:29:00] have done to get us where we are today. Seriously, it takes everyone to make it happen. Next week, we'll pick this back up, but until then, I have to come out with an outro. I don't know. Keep drafting. I don't know.
[00:29:14] Outro
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Kendra Shea: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Deep Dive is produced, hosted, and edited by me, Kendra Shea. The podcast is also produced by Simon Shea Graphics and Cover Art by Tano design Music is by Qreepz. You can email us at Design Over Drinks pod@gmail.com. You can support us on Patreon and follow us on most social media at Design Over Drinks Pod all one word and Blue Sky at Design Overdrinks find us wherever you get your podcasts.
[00:29:44] Tag
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Kendra Shea: Welcome
Is that real? I should double check that.
[00:30:00]